Double hits occurr too often and easily

[nightshark]

Edit for Grom's sake: Mages CAN pull off the lazy double hit too, its just ALOT less frequent and has a way bigger timer delay due to dexterity.

I know that, maybe you misread my point. People complain that dexers are getting double hits to basically insta-kill, which should be something people would complain about, it's lame and obviously a bug. A mage, through luck, timing, or some complex macro, can do a double hit as well, and have magic pre-casted to make up for the loss of dmg on the swings from no tactics, also generating an insta kill thanks to double hit (even though WITHOUT double hit a good hally mage can insta kill already). Why does it make sense to remove double hits only for dexers, but still let mages wrestle exploit to pull one off, it's just giving one playstyle a bug to exploit for double damage, double hitting should be removed entirely for everyone.

Dexer can use mage method also. Double hit in this fashion is entirely readable and dexers are still able to perform it much faster than a mage. Due to the fact it's readable, it's very easy to avoid if you see it coming. It just requires battle sense and watching your opponents actions. The issue with the "dexer double" is that the looping timer makes it just totally luck based, it could happen at any time. Mages dont have the random double hit due to the fact it's just dumb for us to leave a weapon equipped when we can cycle and cut the swing time in half.

tl;dr:
Dexers can double hit with the same method as a mage, only faster.

Random double swings are NEA: remove them.

[Grom]

I think people are going too far with this NEA stuff, a large portion of the thread is players debating how you SHOULD be able to EXPLOIT a system, a bug/exploit that allows you to attack twice. No one else here finds it ridiculous that people are debating/defending how they should be able to time macros to equip/unequip and ready up their exploited swings? If anything, seeing how devastating a double hally hit is in its current form should clue people in that it's NOT a good change for pvp, intentional or otherwise, and rather than trying to manipulate code to make it work for a particular instance of arming/re-arming exploiting, it would make a thousand times more sense to just remove it all together.

[Mikel123]

Grom, I addressed this in my post way above.

Here is what I (and I think most people here) remember:

- double-hits were pretty rare (my guess is because no one really understood swing timers and all that)
- it wouldn't happen while you just had one weapon equipped the whole time

I think people are just trying to reconcile those memories with their current understanding of the swing timer. Plus, the Japanese-translated paragraph explains things just as most of us remember.

I explained in a lot of detail my hypothesis as to what's happening now and what should be happening. Please re-read (or, read it for the first time) before commenting ignorantly.

Along the same line... if you understand what people are saying (again, I try to spell it out pretty plainly in my post above) you'll see that it should be pretty easy to spot when someone is going for a double-swing, and thus pretty easy to evade. As it stands now, they can happen at virtually any time.

[Grom]

Grom, I addressed this in my post way above.

Here is what I (and I think most people here) remember:

- double-hits were pretty rare (my guess is because no one really understood swing timers and all that)
- it wouldn't happen while you just had one weapon equipped the whole time

I think people are just trying to reconcile those memories with their current understanding of the swing timer. Plus, the Japanese-translated paragraph explains things just as most of us remember.

I explained in a lot of detail my hypothesis as to what's happening now and what should be happening. Please re-read (or, read it for the first time) before commenting ignorantly.

Along the same line... if you understand what people are saying (again, I try to spell it out pretty plainly in my post above) you'll see that it should be pretty easy to spot when someone is going for a double-swing, and thus pretty easy to evade. As it stands now, they can happen at virtually any time.

Call me ignorant if it makes you feel better, i read your post, I'm a forum addict at times. As you say, it was a rarity because people really didn't understand swing timers then, people also didn't have things fully loaded into timed macro's to perform them with razor, people have both of those tools available to them today. Regardless of how you try to justify the exploit, being double hit with a halberd isn't competitive or skilled, it's an exploited mechanic that turns a potential fight into timer exploiting, giving the possibility of insta-gibbing someone with it especially with a magic hally. Other than my posts against it, it seems like everyone's lining up right along nodding their heads saying "hmmm, yes, that's how I remember it, let us exploit this way instead of that way". Take my opinion as someone trying to rationalize the logic behind keeping in this exploit at all, compared to you old timers who somehow think it's a desirable mechanic and not a terrible exploit with the potential for gamebreaking amounts of damage in fights.

[Roser]

*Rips Hair Out*

Grom man.... Your out of your Element.


Grom = Donnie ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v-zdKfi ... re=related

[Grom]

*Rips Hair Out*

Grom man.... Your out of your Element.


Grom = Donnie ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v-zdKfi ... re=related

I seem to make you lose a lot of hair, I'm surprised you have anything left to rip out, maybe you should change your name to RoseHairRIP.
Edit: If you don't like my opinion on a mechanic, that's fine, I'm against double hits entirely, not for re-inventing the code to enable a specific timer exploiting to do it for "accuracy".

[Roser]

SHUT THE FU.... *Strokes out*

[Rhaps]

Nah Rose, he's just saying double hit is an exploit, which it is. Now dexxers randomly double hit, or double hit better than tank mages if this thread makes sense, so there's lots of tears from the mainly tank mage pvp crowd. What Grom doesn't get is that double hit is era accurate and therefore even if it's a horrendous exploitable bug in an already comically imbalanced pvp system it's here to stay. Long live insta-gib and nerd rage.

[Grom]

Nah Rose, he's just saying double hit is an exploit, which it is. Now dexxers randomly double hit, or double hit better than tank mages if this thread makes sense, so there's lots of tears from the mainly tank mage pvp crowd. What Grom doesn't get is that double hit is era accurate and therefore even if it's a horrendous exploitable bug in an already comically imbalanced pvp system it's here to stay. Long live insta-gib and nerd rage.

Well there's plenty of nerd rage going on, apparently stroke inducing. I'm glad you called it comically imbalanced, if I did I think Rose might have gone on an IRL killing spree, I believe the politically correct term for these boards is "a rare and skilled combat maneuver" . IMO they took a good step in the right direction of balance with finally implementing swing on the run, the only other big issue I see is people getting insta-killed or near insta-killed in fights due to double swings. Whether it's done through random luck in the current system, or timed macros in a revised system, the outcome will be the same.

[Mikel123]

Grom, I'm sorry, not to sound elitist, but I agree you are definitely out of your element (and yes, ignorant) if you think this is going to be macroed.

The only way to macro an accurate double-hit would require both you and your opponent to be standing still the entire time. This is the point: you have .25 of a second to connect a double-hit, and you have to be next to your opponent at that exact time. So if you're counting seconds in your head, your opponent presumably is as well. And all it would take for them to dodge the second swing entirely would be moving 1 tile for 1/4 of a second. That would make the opponent start the entire process over again.

Now, as it currently stands, they'd only have to start the second half of it (just waiting) again. And they'd have a chance (a good chance as a dexer) to just do it randomly.

Btw, "exploiting" mechanics is in the nature of the game. There are a ton of bugs in T2A UO (and every other era) and I guarantee you exploit more than a few of them (whether you realize it or not). So I don't really understand your position here.

[Grom]

So I don't really understand your position here.

Isn't it more than obvious, since I basically retype it in every post at one point or another anyway? My position is there's no need to implement an obviously unintentional exploit of the era. Rhaps gets what I'm sayin, although he acknowledges that it's not the servers goal to fix bugs, it is what it is. I guess I'm more of a player that when he sees an exploit, expects the developers to fix it, not give me a formula for calculating timings to exploit properly.

Does it mean that this server isn't for me? Probably.
Am I still playing here while waiting for other games to get released between playing sc2 matches? Yes.
Will you get to hear the opinion of a non-T2A exploit loving maniac on a niche shard dominated by an elite few who love broken mechanics? For now, yep
if that seriously makes you rage or get elitist, then all I can do is laugh.

[nightshark]

Mage double swing you dont even need to count in your head to avoid it, just move out of range for a little while and they lose it. If someone finds the opportunity to pull that off in a fast paced fight without their opponent noticing it then that is fair enough.

[MatronDeWinter]

I still don't believe that it is accurate at all.

[son]

Grom stop trolling

[Mikel123]

I still don't believe that it is accurate at all.

Admittedly, I only know of them from practicing in fall of 2000 or so.

But, Faust's Japanese website shows them talking about the strategy and I believe that's dated in 1999.