Shard opinion: Grandfathered blessed items

[Guerrilla]

I'd just like to take this time out to thank derrick publicly for his decision reguarding this topic. And on a second note, you people really need to just play the damn game, and stop whining about it.

I'd hate to see the expression on your faces when i get my etheral llama

[platy]

you people really need to just play the damn game, and stop whining about it.

Derrick did as good as he could- Can't always please an entire shard..
Just enjoy the game, grandfathered neon masks aren't going to affect your life in anyway.

[DrFaustus]

"There are some other older grandfathered houses that have different lockdown/secure counts etc due to us correcting various inaccuracies over the years."

Look for Sultan's thread in the bug report forums I think...

Nox, this happened before blessed masks, you must go terrorize those threads instead.

[noxmonk]

DrFaustus, if my information is incorrect about the era feel free to correct it to show where these items fit into the complete era accuracy framework. I am not interested in argument ad antiquatem, only specific information revolving around this topic. If my information is refutable as it pertains to the t2a era, please do so.

[Panthor the Hated]

Grandfathering is a common practice throughout UO's history as well as the real world. Provide a good reason why this is a case where grandfathered items should not be permitted.

[DrFaustus]

DrFaustus, if my information is incorrect about the era feel free to correct it to show where these items fit into the complete era accuracy framework. I am not interested in argument ad antiquatem, only specific information revolving around this topic. If my information is refutable as it pertains to the t2a era, please do so.

It doesn't matter if your information is 100% accurate, on the dot, spot on, or crystal clear.

Feel free to host another shard that is hell bent on accuracy and be sure to use "no grandfathered items" as your selling point.

[noxmonk]

Grandfathering is a common practice throughout UO's history as well as the real world. Provide a good reason why this is a case where grandfathered items should not be permitted.

Again, I am not interested in "because we did it before" arguments, or argumentum ad antiquatem. I will humor this though. The reason behind the grandfathering was inaccurate, thus the grandfathering itself is inaccurate. As Derrick has stated the reason behind the decision to grandfather was that he wanted to keep his word, and that's what most players were latching on to in order to support their inaccuracy remaining as such. Although as stated, no one in the design process or the company's themselves ever considered their word to players to be indefinite and binding.

Therefore, the reasoning behind the grandfathering is not accurate, and therefore the grandfathering in this instance is inaccurate. Thus, it does not fit into the t2a accuracy framework.

It doesn't matter if your information is 100% accurate, on the dot, spot on, or crystal clear.

Feel free to host another shard that is hell bent on accuracy and be sure to use "no grandfathered items" as your selling point.

So then decisions and changes should not be based off of information pertaining to the era? I feel to see how this would accomplish furthering the shards stated goal of era accuracy. Could you further elaborate on how you feel it is beneficial that correct information be substituted for incorrect or no information?

[Pristiq]

I'd like to state my only concern about grandfathering these items here.

One of the biggest themes in UO is risk. You can lose your stuff at any time - and will if you're not careful enough. Yes, it's true we have other grandfathered items but in every case there are ways of these inaccurate items being weeded out of the system - houses drop, vendors die, etc. However, we now have a limited amount of items that will never go away and will never even change players. Unless the player wearing these items actually drops them or sells them, they'll forever be there.

[DrFaustus]

Grandfathering is a common practice throughout UO's history as well as the real world. Provide a good reason why this is a case where grandfathered items should not be permitted.

Again, I am not interested in "because we did it before" arguments, or argumentum ad antiquatem. I will humor this though. The reason behind the grandfathering was inaccurate, thus the grandfathering itself is inaccurate. As Derrick has stated the reason behind the decision to grandfather was that he wanted to keep his word, and that's what most players were latching on to in order to support their inaccuracy remaining as such. Although as stated, no one in the design process or the company's themselves ever considered their word to players to be indefinite and binding.

Therefore, the reasoning behind the grandfathering is not accurate, and therefore the grandfathering in this instance is inaccurate. Thus, it does not fit into the t2a accuracy framework.

It doesn't matter if your information is 100% accurate, on the dot, spot on, or crystal clear.

Feel free to host another shard that is hell bent on accuracy and be sure to use "no grandfathered items" as your selling point.

So then decisions and changes should not be based off of information pertaining to the era? I feel to see how this would accomplish furthering the shards stated goal of era accuracy. Could you further elaborate on how you feel it is beneficial that correct information be substituted for incorrect or no information?

Elaborate? Why? You're just going to continue trolling.

A decision was reached on this topic, and that decision was clearly stated in Derrick's post a few days ago. We can now move on to other issues until decisions/fixes are developed and implemented for them. You may post "correct information" on each and every topic, but it doesn't mean it's going to get implemented how you see fit in accordance with the information you present.

[DrFaustus]

I'd like to state my only concern about grandfathering these items here.

One of the biggest themes in UO is risk. You can lose your stuff at any time - and will if you're not careful enough. Yes, it's true we have other grandfathered items but in every case there are ways of these inaccurate items being weeded out of the system - houses drop, vendors die, etc. However, we now have a limited amount of items that will never go away and will never even change players. Unless the player wearing these items actually drops them or sells them, they'll forever be there.

As was intended by the system in which said players acquired these items.

[iamreallysquall]

I'd like to state my only concern about grandfathering these items here.

One of the biggest themes in UO is risk. You can lose your stuff at any time - and will if you're not careful enough. Yes, it's true we have other grandfathered items but in every case there are ways of these inaccurate items being weeded out of the system - houses drop, vendors die, etc. However, we now have a limited amount of items that will never go away and will never even change players. Unless the player wearing these items actually drops them or sells them, they'll forever be there.

until my macer breaks it one day is the mindset you should have. 'for now' they are safe

[Panthor the Hated]

Do you understand why grandfathering is done nox? Its because things get changed for one reason or another. The reason for the change is a factor in the decision but "was it accurate" is not an important factor. An important factor is does grandfathering a previous item/mechanic give an unfair advantage to those with the items in question. In this case it has no advantage.

Of course, you're just trolling and are obviously completely insincere. I don't recall you railing against grandfathered dressed vendors or ANY other similar cases like the grandfathered houses. Why weren't you outraged then? Because there was no unfair advantage and no one would have cared if you were against it. Now that you have a premade audience for your trolling you jump in it and ignore every valid argument while making no argument for your side. Just keep repeating yourself nox, I'm sure it'll work out for you.

[noxmonk]

Elaborate? Why? You're just going to continue trolling.

A decision was reached on this topic, and that decision was clearly stated in Derrick's post a few days ago. We can now move on to other issues until decisions/fixes are developed and implemented for them. You may post "correct information" on each and every topic, but it doesn't mean it's going to get implemented how you see fit in accordance with the information you present.

Please keep the discussion relevant to the topic. Continually launching ad hominem attacks against me while I am having civil discourse is not required or desired. If you wish to do that, there is the Trash Talk forum.

If my information requires quotations, you imply that it is not incorrect. Could you please point out the inaccuracies in my statements? My desire is not to have it how I see fit, but that which greatly upholds the shards long standing statement of era accuracy. I do not have a personal agenda in this as you would imply.

[noxmonk]

Do you understand why grandfathering is done nox? Its because things get changed for one reason or another. The reason for the change is a factor in the decision but "was it accurate" is not an important factor. An important factor is does grandfathering a previous item/mechanic give an unfair advantage to those with the items in question. In this case it has no advantage.

The understanding behind grandfathering does not escape me. You are choosing to ignore the entire process behind this specific decision to grandfather, unfortunately ignoring information is not something that is a viable alternative to correcting an inaccuracy.

Of course, you're just trolling and are obviously completely insincere. I don't recall you railing against grandfathered dressed vendors or ANY other similar cases like the grandfathered houses. Why weren't you outraged then? Because there was no unfair advantage and no one would have cared if you were against it. Now that you have a premade audience for your trolling you jump in it and ignore every valid argument while making no argument for your side. Just keep repeating yourself nox, I'm sure it'll work out for you.

I was not playing at the time these changes were made, or was not aware of them if I was thus I cannot speak to that. Please keep your posts relevant to the topic, if you cannot have civil discourse without launching personal attacks at your every convenience, feel free to use the Trash Talk forum.

[Panthor the Hated]

All of my posts have been relevant nox, regardless of your agreement or approval. Instead of just dismissing my arguments out of hand maybe you should respond to their substance.

Kthx.