Additional incorrect creature mechanics (ogre lords)

[kwhiz73]

I always remember Ogre lords hitting extremely hard---they don't hit much harder than zombies currently. You used to only be able to use blade spirits on them as well. Ev's completely ignored them--now they stick to them like glue.

[OhSnap]

I always remember Ogre lords hitting extremely hard---they don't hit much harder than zombies currently. You used to only be able to use blade spirits on them as well. Ev's completely ignored them--now they stick to them like glue.

mmm I don't agree with the statement about them hitting not much harder than a zombie. And as far as I can tell, EVs currently treat them just like any other mob, attacking them only when adjacent to them; whether this mechanic is correct or not has been long debated.

[Downs]

I remember them hitting extremely hard...

[Hamrlik]

I remember them hitting extremely hard...

Me too... IIRC, you couldn't take two hits from an Ogre Lord without healing yourself.

[Malaikat]

I remember them hitting extremely hard...

Me too... IIRC, you couldn't take two hits from an Ogre Lord without healing yourself.

Hah, you couldn't take 2 hits without needing a res, depending on your AR. I haven't fought them here yet, perhaps I should start...

[andersej]

I remember them hitting extremely hard...

Me too... IIRC, you couldn't take two hits from an Ogre Lord without healing yourself.

Hah, you couldn't take 2 hits without needing a res, depending on your AR. I haven't fought them here yet, perhaps I should start...

Please do... You'll probably find that the writer of this hasn't taken very many hits from them as well lol. Last I checked the still hit like a damn truck 30-50 hp.

[kwhiz73]

I may have been exaggerating slightly when I used the zombie example, but it's not nearly hard enough to cause concern. Before trammel (honestly don't remember the year) if you got hit twice you were usually dead; here, it's In Mani healing only. My armorless mage was hit two days ago and took an 18 hit from an ogre lord. That's what prompted me to make this post. It's definately not consistently 30-50, seems more like 15-30. They just don't seem any more significant than any other mob from a melee standpoint.

Regarding the EV's....They used to ignore Ogre lords completely. This has nothing to do with all the recent debates regarding proper EV placement on these forums. Blade spirits were the only useful tactic for ogre lords back then---mana dumping took forever. I believe it had something to do with EV's targeting the highest intelligence being in the vicinity, while blade spirits attacked the highest dex...? Anyone remember this?

[Hamrlik]

Regarding the EV's....They used to ignore Ogre lords completely. This has nothing to do with all the recent debates regarding proper EV placement on these forums. Blade spirits were the only useful tactic for ogre lords back then---mana dumping took forever. I believe it had something to do with EV's targeting the highest intelligence being in the vicinity, while blade spirits attacked the highest dex...? Anyone remember this?

That's also something I remember...

I can't tell the exact period in time, but EVs used to be attracted to intelligent beings (way before Trammel, but it could've been changed during or before T2A too...), the more intelligence you had the worse chances were an EV would jump on you first. OLs weren't really famous for their intellect. Not sure about BSs though.

[MatronDeWinter]

I thought that bladespirits targeted the thing with the most strength with respect to distance, and EV's the most intelligence with respect to distance. The key there is "with respect to distance". Suppose the formula for what target an EV would pick was something like f() below:

f()= floor(int/(distance+1))

f()= floor(100/(5+1))
If the EV was 5 tiles away from a target with 100 int, this would return a value of 16.
f'()=floor(25/(5+1))
If the EV was 5 tiles away from a target with 25 int, this would return a value of 4.

Since f() is > f'(), the EV would attack the target represented in f(). That target has the higher int, as predicted.

Now suppose this alternate scenario:

f()= floor(100/(12+1))
If the EV was 12 tiles away from a target with 100 int, this would return a value of 7.

f'()= floor(25/1+1)
If the EV was 1 tile away from a target with 25 int, this would return a value of 12.

Since f() < f'(), the EV would attack the target represented in f'(). Even though that target has a lower int.



I think the key to understanding how EV's should operate, is understanding the comparative formula used to calculate their target. These formulas have no doubt changed a great deal over time. During Pre-t2a, t2a, and post t2a we know there is a significant difference. The t2a demo could perhaps shed some insight on the formula during that time period, or at least give us a place to start, from which we can use evidence from other sources to find a formula that feels right. (If it isn't already)


The formula for these summons absolutely HAD to take distance into effect, because I never remember a time where you could not BS a lesser monster. I remember sitting inside a small swamped with spawn, casting BS's outside and heading out to loot. These lesser spawn ALL had str lower than that of my character, and so, it is reasonable to assume that if distance were not taken into account, the BS would simply spam movement towards my character, though unable to get inside the house. Since we know that monsters did not actively attack these summons in era (we do know that right?), the BS would have had no effect, yet it did from my personal anecdote.

[Mens Rea]

I seem to recall EVs having nothing to do with OLs either - and being jealous of bards who could make OLs attack EVs.

That's why everyone used BSes on them - therefore why there was always so much competition when trying to land the final blow/get loot/etc.

[Hamrlik]

I seem to recall EVs having nothing to do with OLs either - and being jealous of bards who could make OLs attack EVs.

That's why everyone used BSes on them - therefore why there was always so much competition when trying to land the final blow/get loot/etc.

Exactly.

[OhSnap]

I seem to recall EVs having nothing to do with OLs either - and being jealous of bards who could make OLs attack EVs.

currently (unless recently changed), it is not possible to provoke a mob onto an EV or vice versa. unless I'm doing something wrong. I'm assuming this to be accurate, but you're saying it's not?

[nightshark]

Dunno if it changed from T2A to UO:R, but I would farm OLs using both EVs and bladespirits during the factions era.

[Mens Rea]

You could also teleport onto the tables in the OL room.

[Malaikat]

I don't recall when OL were introduced, but there was a time when EV wouldn't target or damage a low int being. We used to attack them with a bow but no arrows and gm archery in about 10-15 mins off the passive gains. I think all that was in 98 though.