Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

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Mikel123
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Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Mikel123 »

Hemperor was right. I feel like it's worth reconsidering that little Razor checkbox that allows Razor to talk with the server and negotiate what features of Razor are used with the shard.

At this point, most folks who've been around UOSA a while are well aware of some instances in which Razor allows some things to be done which just plain weren't done in 1999 (steal by type, etc).

Of course, this requires discussion on what could and couldn't be done in 1999, in order to configure these Razor settings. And, a good sense of who currently does and does not use Razor to connect (there's one prominent red-named fellow in the forum who I believe doesn't).

But at this point, I feel like it might be in the best interests of the shard.

EDIT: For reference, Derrick's stance on Razor:
To the other issues which generally involve policy such as Razor, Light Filters, accounts per person...

These are very hot subjects but here's the facts as I see them:
1) Razor is the only program that we have available that comes close to what UOA was in era, a legitimate and common helper app that I and everyone I know used.
2) Some features from Razor such as light filtering was only available in 1999 in other third party apps which OSI/EA forbid.
3) To restrict Razor features, you must require Razor to connect to the shard.
4) I don't use Razor, and do not want to be forced to use Razor.
5) Forcing Razor is not era accurate.
6) Razor causes my client to hang up.
Until we have a better solution we are stuck with Razor. I am not a fan of the light filter. I spent days of development in the last patch fixing nightsight to be accurate and most will never see those changes.
Discuss!

EDITED to add Derrick's points.
Last edited by Mikel123 on Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Ronk »

I think it'd be cool if it could be done, but wont' people then just use other cheating programs to do the things they want done?
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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by iamreallysquall »

this old debate again it makes it a harder for people to sign up. doesn't really the solve problem as they are ways around it. Forces everyone to use razor which some don't. everything razor does uoa basically did.
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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Mikel123 »

iamreallysquall wrote:this old debate again it makes it a harder for people to sign up. doesn't really the solve problem as they are ways around it. Forces everyone to use razor which some don't. everything razor does uoa basically did.
Right... the question is... how much harder? I'd bet 99% of us use Razor, and the 1% who don't are almost certainly sophisticated enough to know how to download it and use it.

I don't know the "ways around it", so I have no way to know if you're right about that. But a step in the right direction is better than nothing, no?

And as for "everything razor does uoa basically did", this is wildly incorrect.

Ronk, I don't know anything about cheating programs, so who knows. Again though... there is no perfect solution here. I'm just suggesting that this is a step in the right direction, is better than nothing, and will help.

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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Chaos »

Losing player due to them not being able to log on .. will happen .. I don't think much but it will .. I'm not sure how many find us/login via connectUO but I know chances are they may not find/play us.

I do think however that some times some things must be for the greater good, and I think if you look back I've always been for this. However I will say I don't think anything has changed since this topic was last brought up but unless it has I don't staff will rule any differently now then they did then.
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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Mikel123 »

I think what's changed is that the population here has gotten much more sophisticated in using these features of Razor. Not to crap on my own technical skills, but it took me two full years of UOSA to actually notice what the Light filter was.

The down side of having 3.5 years to explore a time period that lasted 6 months is that everyone gets *really* good at pushing the boundaries. Which is really great in some respects, but when it comes to light levels and steal by type and bot-type stuff, I think it's pretty well out of hand at this point.

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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Ronk »

Mikel123 wrote:I think what's changed is that the population here has gotten much more sophisticated in using these features of Razor. Not to crap on my own technical skills, but it took me two full years of UOSA to actually notice what the Light filter was.

The down side of having 3.5 years to explore a time period that lasted 6 months is that everyone gets *really* good at pushing the boundaries. Which is really great in some respects, but when it comes to light levels and steal by type and bot-type stuff, I think it's pretty well out of hand at this point.
I agree with this, things have def gotten more sophisticated. For example, I now have a poison bot for the orcs to use. They can walk up, drop a bladed weapon, trigger him, and he'll poison their weapon and return it. As far as I know, its completely legal because I use razor and only razor. It sure beats my old method of having a chest full of random poisoned weapons. but its certainly not something I could have done back in the real T2A (legally).
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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by iamreallysquall »

i am entirely against this change for every reason derrick pointed.
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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by MatronDeWinter »

Isn't there some way to say "if the client is using razor, then negotiate", "if they are not using it, then don't bother" ? It seems like this would only be a change to the servers code that negotiates the features with razor. I don't see why this isn't already available unless zippy or whomever does razor now assumed everyone would want it. I really like uo with you know, light levels, trees, and actually targeting things. Having never used UOA I don't know what the inherent benefits of razor are anyway.

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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Mikel123 »

I think a lot of people have forgotten what UOA did and what it didn't do. I don't even think it had a loop/timer back in 1999.

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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by MatronDeWinter »

I do remember there was another program that served only to loop UOA. If it even existed in T2A. I used to play the game by hand and use whatever macro program had a feature that allowed you to compare pixel colors at a certain location on screen, so you could detect when a pixel in your lifebar changed from blue to red and trigger a bandage etc.

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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Jean-Pierre »

Mikel123 wrote:I think a lot of people have forgotten what UOA did and what it didn't do. I don't even think it had a loop/timer back in 1999.
UOA didn't have a loop option. OSI wouldn't have had it as an "approved addon" if it did. You needed UOALoop in order to accomplish that, or another program that would do a key like F10 every 30 seconds or something that was packaged with UOExtreme. That part of UOE was just uoloop.exe if I remember right. Hell, I probably still have all those old things on an old HD somewhere.

So Razor is basically like UOAssist with UOALoop built in. I still have my UOAssist license keys somewhere, and attached to accounts (that are inactive on OSI right now). I'm kind of tempted to fire it up for a month and see what other features are different. Just going by memory though I don't think it's all that different from Razor in terms of macro functionality..other than the looping option.

I'm pretty sure (not 100% sure though) that steal by type was in UOAssist too. It's been a while though so I could be wrong.

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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Roser »

MatronDeWinter wrote:Isn't there some way to say "if the client is using razor, then negotiate", "if they are not using it, then don't bother" ?
If the answer to this question is yes, then we REALLY should be negotiating features.

If Derrick did start to negotiate features, what would happen to razor clients that have not updated in over a year (such as mine)?
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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Roser »

This thread is crying for more attention.
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Re: Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

Post by Derrick »

Rose wrote:
MatronDeWinter wrote:Isn't there some way to say "if the client is using razor, then negotiate", "if they are not using it, then don't bother" ?
If the answer to this question is yes, then we REALLY should be negotiating features.

If Derrick did start to negotiate features, what would happen to razor clients that have not updated in over a year (such as mine)?
Sadly, the answer to this question is no. The only way to know if a client is using razor is to ask. Razor only reveals itself to the server if that checkbox is checked, therefore unchecking the checkbox would defeat any limitations we placed on the app, unless we required that responce from all clients, therefore requiring razor.
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