Fortified +25 Halberd of Force

[Caliban]

2. I think yer undercutting yourself on a buy out price. The +25 is whats important with a big damage weapon like a hally, not the force/power/vanq modifier.

This is very wrong.

By my math... which you're free to double-check and confirm or refute... I see the following as the damage bonus on a 7xGM, 100 Strength tank mage:

extra damage per hit:
+5: 0.8
+10: 1.7
+15: 2.5
+20: 3.4
+25: 4.2

How are you calculating the extra damage for the tactics modifiers? I thought tactics added a % to the base damage of a weapon. A halberd does 5-49 damage, so you would get these ranges of additional damage from the tactics modifier

+5 : 0.25 to 2.45
+10: 0.50 to 4.90
+15: 0.75 to 7.35
+20: 1.00 to 9.80
+25: 1.25 to 12.25

On an average hit (27 damage) from a halberd you would gain

+5 : 1.35
+10: 2.70
+15: 4.05
+20: 5.40
+25: 6.75

I'm not sure how the damage modifier from strength is applied, my guess is that it would be applied to the base damage, independently of any other modifiers (so strength doesn't increase the modifier from tactics) - does anyone know for definate (by studying max damage on an unarmored opponent)?

[itwouldbewise]

Anybody know how much extra damage an exceptional weapon give you? Is there a difference between GM-crafted exceptional items and non-GM crafted ones?

...

Also I've wondered the same thing as Ronk--where the +X% bonuses to damage are applied--e.g. if 100 STR adds +20% to base damage and THEN tactics (+50%) bonus is added, then you would end up doing +80% damage, not +70% damage. Furthermore, if the base damage is changed via a +damage modifier (e.g. vanquishing), and THEN the tactics bonus is added, then that would likewise increase the damage even more (+50% of 9 damage is +4.5 damage from the tactics modifier)...

It's likely that the "+9.2" for vanq weapons data (where'd that come from anyway?) had the 100 tactics (+50%) bonus already applied in there... but yea, it would be interesting to see data that completely broke it down (or to look at the damage calculation code ), because there are obviously a lot of dependencies that must necessarily exist one way or the other within this damage calculation, and those dependencies do not appear to be clearly understood based on everything I've seen (on the wiki, for example).

Somebody needs to generate a 3D data set with damage ranges / averages over a sample set of perhaps 100+ swings at different levels of STR, tactics, damage modifier weapons!... Add in a 2D plane of data for GM weapons... oh yes, we can't forget anatomy add in another 2D plane of data for 100 anat (since it should scale linearly)... or maybe we should just make it a 4D data set (with the variables of interest being anat, str, tactics, and +damage) for completion... heheehehheh.

Any takers? ... or maybe Derrick could just tell us

[Matty]

what if your character has gm anatomy? how much is added to the avg hit?

[itwouldbewise]

+20% according to the wiki page (but where / when is that 20% added in is MY question... is it before or after or at the same time as the STR bonus... is it before or after the +damage modifier bonus... is it before or after or at the same time as the Tactics bonus)...

I would assume that the calculation is applied like this:
let's say the base damage is 10
->1st add in the strength and damage modifier bonuses
= 10 * (1 + 0.2 from STR) + 4 from damage modifer--maybe GM weapon?)
= 12 + 4
= 16
->THEN GM tactics AND anatomy bonus added
= 16 * (1 + 0.5 from tactics + 0.2 from anatomy)
= 16 * (1.7)
= 27.2 damage

But you see, if the bonuses were added at different times, the end result would be quite a bit different.
The best case is the "compounded" case where each modifier is added one at a time, with the damage modifier added at the beginning... again assuming 10 base damage
-> from damage modifier
=10 + 4
=14
-> now add strength modifier, then add tactics modifier, then add anatomy modifier
=14 * (1.2 STR) * (1.5 tactics) * (1.2 anatomy)
= 30.2 damage (3 points different from the most likely--in my opinion, that is--case above)

worst case would be like this, assuming 10 base damage:
-> first add and apply all % modifiers
0.2 STR + 0.5 tactics + 0.2 anatomy = 0.9
= 10 * (1.9) = 19
-> add damage modifier
= 19 + 4 = 23 damage
(a 7 point difference from the best case scenario... it would be an even bigger gap with a larger "base" damage like a halberd)

So yea, that's what I'm getting at... where these modifiers are applied could make a big difference in the determination of how "good" the +25 tactics is.