Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka VDP

For ideas on how to make Second Age a better shard. Can it get any better? Maybe.
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Gymkhana
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Gymkhana »

Would also love to see this. Some weps seem so bad compared to others.

Abbot #1 smith :O

PhAt AbBotT
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by PhAt AbBotT »

I'll put myself down on the list for wanting a way to gauge weapon quality.
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Abbot
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Abbot »

http://vboards.stratics.com/111434-post72.html
Now I already quoted this guy before with the prices.
But I left out a vital part:

"I know all these to be accurate, as I have made at least one of each at these prices, and have never made any over these prices in 3 years as a smith."

Now, I know this isn't an end all, but it's at least something to base the VDP formula on. Derrick said all he needed was the max VDP values to figure out the proper formula, well, I believe this does it. I know it's not entirely reliable to just use what some guy said on some forums, but multiple sites back up his findings and he says they've been stable for at 99-01.

I implore the GMs to at least consider implementing this formula with what information is available, as the shard will be far more era accurate than before, even considering the possibility that these max VDP values are off by one or two gold, which I doubt.

Thank you for reading. I'll provide any further information I might find until this feature is implemented.
<Soma> He may be a pedophile, but he's a damn good smith
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elhorno
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by elhorno »

Great research! I would love to see this implemented.
Image

Abbot
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Abbot »

Can a GM or Admin let me know if any more research is needed before this is implemented? Thanks.
<Soma> He may be a pedophile, but he's a damn good smith
<Sheer_Luck> Yeah but all the hally handles smell funny.

Kaivan
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Kaivan »

The only research that will actually provide any sufficient information is likely contained deep in the demo server core itself. As of now, the information we currently have does not really help us to ascertain the algorithm for determining the base value of an item.
UOSA Historian and former staff member: August 11, 2008 - June 19, 2016

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Abbot
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Abbot »

Hmm, brick wall for me, then.
if we can find an accurate in-era source of the maximum price for a given set of weapons, we may be able to determine that formula.

Is that no longer the case then, Kaivan?
<Soma> He may be a pedophile, but he's a damn good smith
<Sheer_Luck> Yeah but all the hally handles smell funny.

Kaivan
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Kaivan »

Abbot wrote:Hmm, brick wall for me, then.
if we can find an accurate in-era source of the maximum price for a given set of weapons, we may be able to determine that formula.

Is that no longer the case then, Kaivan?

I think that it's very unlikely that we'll ever have an exact formula without access to the core of the demo, although I could be wrong.

The problem that I see is that these pages only give us specific information, namely the highest values that we can see for specific items. Unfortunately, this doesn't tell us anything about the lower valued numbers such as the minimum value for these items. Thus, as far as I can see, we can only ascertain a formula that might give us accurate information for the highest values, but may be very wrong for the lower values.

Additionally, I can say that the demo has several numbers that don't reflect the same numbers recorded on stratics for the vdp. Particularly for armor. It's possible that there is an answer for this, but it carries some problematic (possibly) implications with it for the items that do have approximately the same value on the demo. Either way, until we get some accurate information regarding the formula from the demo, then I would have to say that our chances of building an accurate VDP formula are very low.
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Abbot
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Abbot »

then what are the chances of perhaps building a new, original VDP formula?

I realize it'd be taking liberties, but I'd think it'd be more era accurate to have a bad, inaccurate VDP formula than none at all, like it is now. The one we've got limits player merchants in a very era inaccurate way, by not allowing us to determine our higher durability items in order to sell them for higher profit, like players used to in the designated time frame of UOSA.

I can see not wanting to rush it, and research the matter and maybe getting a better, likely more era accurate formula from the demo, but this issue has been pending for quite some time now and nothing has been done. I'd imagine it'd be a quick fix to just figure out fair numbers and go from there. I think the rest of the shard would agree, or wouldn't care, if this was brought to more people's attention.
<Soma> He may be a pedophile, but he's a damn good smith
<Sheer_Luck> Yeah but all the hally handles smell funny.

Kaivan
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Kaivan »

Well, it would be possible to create an approximate VDP formula, but it wouldn't be an easy task. In order to approximate the formula with any degree of accuracy, it would be necessary to make each item many times in the demo (both exceptional and non exceptional), and then from there, attempt to build a formula that looks at some of the variables associated with these items and builds an acceptable formula for all items. This is a pretty large undertaking, and doesn't really give us much of an improvement over what we have now, which is problematic to say the least.

Also, Derrick's time has been very limited as of late (as has mine), and when we do find time to work on issues, we need to prioritize them as best as possible. Unfortunately, this is considered a low priority problem along with other problems that have been known since the start of the server, and it will probably see little to no work on it without some concrete information to work with.
UOSA Historian and former staff member: August 11, 2008 - June 19, 2016

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Abbot
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Abbot »

Alright, well thank you Kaivan for communicating with me about it. I truly appreciate it.

I'd just like to reiterate that I think a quick fix VDP would be more era accurate than the one we have now, and by that I mean is just guessing what you think VDP might be, and coming up with a system that you think is fair. I can see how that might not appeal, since you're trading a broken system in for another broken system, but this broken system would be better than the last. It doesn't need to be researched.

My point being, the formula isn't largely important to me, the end result is, and I think overall the end result would be more era accurate than fixed prices. The fixed price tag system is broken and it excludes an era accurate niche market.

Again, thanks for responding.

Alternatively, I just thought of this, tell me where to dig and I'll dig. Any info you need, I can do my best to chart it out.
<Soma> He may be a pedophile, but he's a damn good smith
<Sheer_Luck> Yeah but all the hally handles smell funny.

Gymkhana
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Gymkhana »

Abbot wrote:My point being, the formula isn't largely important to me, the end result is, and I think overall the end result would be more era accurate than fixed prices. The fixed price tag system is broken and it excludes an era accurate niche market.


The only thing that matters is having a way to determine which items are better than others. Having an exact formula that used to exist or even having the exact same dollar values really doesn't matter. It would be very nice to know which weapons are better than others before using them.

Abbot
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Abbot »

I'll just ask again
What information exactly do you need to get this implemented Kaivan?
I'll figure out getting the demo to work.

Do you just need a range of sell prices on all items that can be crafted that have a durability? If I was able to determine the formula without making a list of all sell prices for all items would that be acceptable if I could prove it? Is there anything I'm missing? Even if I submit the information, will it be considered legitimate and will it even be implemented into UOSA?

Just let me know, I'll get started as soon as you do.
<Soma> He may be a pedophile, but he's a damn good smith
<Sheer_Luck> Yeah but all the hally handles smell funny.

Abbot
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Abbot »

Bump for an answer
<Soma> He may be a pedophile, but he's a damn good smith
<Sheer_Luck> Yeah but all the hally handles smell funny.

Abbot
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Re: Item Vendor Display Price aka Vendor-Default-Pricing aka

Post by Abbot »

I'm trying to be helpful and take up a many hour long task that would help make this shard more era accurate, but I feel like I'm being ignored. I just need those questions answered before I go on with the research.
<Soma> He may be a pedophile, but he's a damn good smith
<Sheer_Luck> Yeah but all the hally handles smell funny.

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