Explosion EB combo not as prevalent as it was in T2A

[Hoots]

I have a feeling people are just remembering the timers wrong after so many years and playing on other servers that have been wrong for a decade now. Most people probably mistaken the damage delay on the ebolt to be that of the explosion. The majority of the same exact timers are also used in the Ultima Online Demo before t2a was even realeased. These same timers were also present in UOR and to this very day.

horrible assumption.

Many of us have not played anything besides OSI. You can type as much as you want and tell me i didnt land timed, explo/eb Hallys, explo/fs Hallys and explo/poison (pick a 3rd spell) combos... Before i started playing a dexer this was basically 95% of my PvP on OSI.

[Faust]

Also, claiming that spell timers are still the same on OSI to this day is obviously wrong, spell timing and how it works has completely changed in more recent updates.

The only thing that has changed with the timers is the altering side effects caused from items. Fast casting, channeling, altering the recast delay, etc... The base timings are still the same. This is made clear on the UO Guide under the spells section. Explosion damage delay is stated to be 2 seconds. The explosion on the demo is 2 seconds, and there is a 1 second damage delay applied when it hits since this was before it was removed. Also, the spell timers for each circle is stated to be +0.25 per circle starting at 0.5 for the first(the same timers used on the UO Demo). This same data is presented all the way back in the earlier days of the UOR publish as well. The timings hasn't changed as of the end of 2008 the last time I checked. I can't say for anything after that at this very moment.

In all honesty the problem here is that people just are not remembering the most of these features correctly or mistaking other side effects that existed than. If anyone has played on other RunUO servers that also wraps up an explanation for the majority of the differences. I have already made an exmaple being that of the damage delay on ebolt. Most people didn't understand the mechanics back then as much as they believe they did. They are more then likely mistaking the damage delay on ebolt to be that of the explosion damage.

Faust belives if he writes paragraph after paragraph on the subject it makes him automatically right.... and unfortunatly the lack of proof along with lack of time, effort and frankly caring by most others will lead to things not changing.

This is simply not true. I believe the facts that are laid out right in front me. Why is that I can seem to find data to back up this material, while at the same time people that continues these claims can't even come up with one ounce of evidence?

Please explain this one... Explosion hits 2 seconds on the demo, and the damage hits 1 second later. The damage delay on explosion is presented as 2 seconds on the current OSI page. What you theoretically are saying is that there was some mysterious patch that changed that in between late '98 and '01 that and another mysterious patch that reverted that in '01... This makes absolutely no sense and defies logic by far.

I'm sorry if you don't follow the same logical perspective that I follow Hoots. However, if you look at the same functions and mechanics in a scientific perspective there is aboslutely no doubt that the data presented is beyond conclusive.

We can't do anything besides to go with what we have. If you have any information or want to further research all the data you are more than welcome too... This situation is like saying a rock doesn't sink in water when the facts are right there that proves this otherwise... I'm positive Derrick would fix this accordingly if evidence was presented that proves this otherwise.

PS
I have obtained 85 magery on the demo and done many tests with the spells before my client crashed from the common vendor buy bug to train it any further.

[Derrick]

I take your recollections on this very seriously, and am actively looking into whether we've missed something here or not.

[Hernando_Kortez]

Would I be correct in thinking that ebolt should take 1.75 seconds to cast and cure should take 0.75?

If this is the case then I don't understand how we were able to cast explode/poison on ourselves and then cure before the explode hit. According to these timings we would have been 0.5 seconds late on the cure. I accept that the UO guide says 2 seconds but that doesn't quite tally with what I remember from UO:R.

[Faust]

The recast or "skill delay" as OSI called it when it was implemented was a delay applied to all spell casting upon completion and incompletion. This was a 0.5 second delay that created the "fast casting" that people are so familiar with that played UOR. If you cast an energy bolt that takes 1.75s, and wait until 2.25 you can cast the second one and have the damage hit much quicker together to create a burst of damage compared to it being more spread out.

OSI later altered this delay to be based on what circle you were casting and how far into the spell you were. Do you recall the "you must wait to recover from casting a spell" message in UOR? This is the recast/skill delay that was applied to all spells in '98.

Here is a little explanation of this delay if you cast the two different versions of two energy bolts back to back...

Non-Fast Casting:
Ebolt 1.75s + 0.5s Recast + Ebolt 1.75s = 2.75s First Damage Ebolt, 5.0 Second Damage Ebolt = 2.25 Seconds in between damage.

Fast Casting:
Ebolt 1.75s + Ebolt 1.75s = 3.25s First Damage Ebolt, 5.0 Second Damage Ebolt = 1.75 Seconds in between damage.

The time that it all takes is the same, but the only difference is the time in between the spell damages. It is a fairly simple process if you think about it. The difference is that you wait for the recast delay to subside with the fast casting process. This same process can be used for an explosion/ebolt combo to remove 0.5 seconds of the timer in between they hit if you didn't fast cast.

[Hoots]

This is simply not true. I believe the facts that are laid out right in front me. Why is that I can seem to find data to back up this material, while at the same time people that continues these claims can't even come up with one ounce of evidence?

It has been said over and over... the era saw many changes. If you are looking for proof to back up a claim it is very likely you can find something to agree with you. Many have noted about mislabeled and basically wrong patch information at the time... Also, you use "your memories" and "Your friends who PvP'd" and "your work at wtfman" as references while at the same time discrediting the same memories and such of others.

Please explain this one... Explosion hits 2 seconds on the demo, and the damage hits 1 second later. The damage delay on explosion is presented as 2 seconds on the current OSI page. What you theoretically are saying is that there was some mysterious patch that changed that in between late '98 and '01 that and another mysterious patch that reverted that in '01... This makes absolutely no sense and defies logic by far.

Ill explaing it as i said above. I have only played OSI and i cant imagine how i would ever have the concept of a timed explo/eb/hally or explo/FS/Hally if they didnt exist... Im not just making it to disagree with you Faust... Christ! I was hitting these combos on dialup without razor at the time...

I'm sorry if you don't follow the same logical perspective that I follow Hoots. However, if you look at the same functions and mechanics in a scientific perspective there is aboslutely no doubt that the data presented is beyond conclusive.

Yep, i diagree with you so i dont follow logical perspective. Classic.

[Faust]

It has been said over and over... the era saw many changes. If you are looking for proof to back up a claim it is very likely you can find something to agree with you. Many have noted about mislabeled and basically wrong patch information at the time... Also, you use "your memories" and "Your friends who PvP'd" and "your work at wtfman" as references while at the same time discrediting the same memories and such of others.

If this is true you should have no problem finding something to back up the claim.

Yep, i diagree with you so i dont follow logical perspective. Classic.

I never said that you didn't... I said sorry if you don't...

[Xukluk Tuguznal]

I definately remember the explo/poison/ and curing before the explo went off. Took really great timing to do it.

Faust, Honestly I'm inclined to say it is off. We all remember it the same way cept you?

Also as for what uo has up now. Timing wise after they went to fc/fcr they changed the base timings. Casting explo ebolt took a day to do where as you could get then off together prior. Pvp was out the question without fc/fcr jewelry which got goofy as hell for a period before they capped it. People were running around casting FS as fast as a Magic Arrow.

I'll definately look through the patch notes. But, at the same turn of a dime. I know my recollections aren't false.

[Faust]

I definately remember the explo/poison/ and curing before the explo went off. Took really great timing to do it.

That is possible on here...

I won't lie to you about this. I'm with you when it comes to the explosion timer. I have said from day one that I remember it being roughly around 2.5 seconds. However, the data and evidence that I've seen suggests otherwise. I can't entirely say the Demo can be very conclusive, because timing two fractions of a second isn't the easiest task at all... It did look like it was two seconds to me though with a damage delay added to it.

Edit:
Here are some of the references in regard to this topic.

- Current Ultima Online Guide -
All 6th Circle spells cost 20 mana and take 1.75 seconds to cast

Explosion BM, MR Single Use (2 second delay) Damages a target with an explosion.
(51-56 fire damage at GM Magery, Eval, Inscription) .Elemental Resistances reduce damage.

Explosion
Tip: With a 2 second delay, this spell is often used as the setup spell for a combo. Explosion can be followed quickly by another damage spell (such as Energy Bolt) to effectively double the amount of damage done to a target in a relatively short amount of time.
Required Reagents: Blood Moss, Mandrake Root
Words of Power: Vas Ort Flam

Reference: http://www.uoherald.com/guide/magic_5.php

- Pre-AOS -
All 6th Circle spells cost 20 mana and take 1.75 seconds to cast

Explosion BM, MR Single Use (2 second delay) Damages a target with an explosion for 20-62 damage. Resist - Half

Explosion
Tip: With a 2 second delay, this spell is often used as the setup spell for a combo. Explosion can be followed quickly by another damage spell (such as Energy Bolt) to effectively double the amount of damage done to a target in a relatively short amount of time.
Required Reagents: Blood Moss, Mandrake Root
Words of Power: Vas Ort Flam

Reference: http://web.archive.org/web/200208051559 ... gic_5.html

Stratics also uses the same related material for each revision. I know that some people can say "well hey what if it was 2.1 or 2.5", etc... Why would they be specific on the 1.75 second notation and not the two second explosion one? It just wouldn't seem like a very logical arguement to me.

[Red]

For all we know, they could have used a live test on the exp delay without telling anyone, and decided to roll with it. The revision for the website could have easily been overlooked.

I do remember the exp delaying a bit longer than here, but I guess I chalked it up to having a better computer and connection.

[Faust]

The delay was longer at one point in UO before the damage delay was removed from the spell in early '99.

[Red]

So, the 2 second spell delay was longer at one point in UO, before they removed the 1 second damage delay, we're just not sure when? Wouldn't that make the total delay from target to damage more than 3 seconds, at one point in T2A?

[Faust]

The damage delay for the explosion spell was removed in January '99.

- Jan 19 1999 3:05PM -
Damage from the explosion spell will now happen immediately.

[son]

Something related:
http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4609

[Redbeard72]

ok i glanced through this and my understanding is about the explosion e-bolt combo. from my understanding the only thing different here is the spell timer delay that's in between spells so to get around this SON. cast and hold it for a couple seconds while holding down e-bolt, then hit last target or such and keep holding the e-bolt and it will cast with out delay. i can make a explosion poison,the poison hit sooner then the explosion. and well i suck at pvp. ask anyone lol and well the explosion hally e-bolt was as fresh here as back then.

Thank you Crew ! Perfect Shard !