Explosion EB combo not as prevalent as it was in T2A

[son]

Aye ive seen Loops do it with much less delay, I will give it a shot as you suggest Red. I wonder if that is an exploit?

[Faust]

It isn't an exploit son. If you wait out the recast delay you can hit a burst type damage instead. This was always a valid tactic in Ultima Online when they added the delay in late '98. You can spread the damage out a little or do a short burst. It all still takes the same amount of time to do though. The only difference is the style or type of damage that is dealt.

Here is the difference by fast casting and not using it with explosion ebolt combo.

Non-Fast Casting:
Cast Explosion - 1.75s
Release Explosion Immediately.
Wait Recast Delay 0.5 seconds to cast again.
Cast Ebolt - 1.75s
Release Ebolt

Explosion will hit at 3.75s after it was released. Ebolt will be finished casting at 4.0 seconds after waiting the recast delay. After it is released immediately the damage will hit at 5 seconds. Being 1.25 seconds within each other.

Fast Casting:
Cast Explosion - 1.75s
Wait Recast Delay 0.5 seconds and release.
Cast Energy Bolt - 1.75s
Release Immediately

Explosion will cast at 1.75s and be released at 2.25s. The damage for the spell won't hit until 4.25s after being released. Ebolt will be casted at 4 seconds and released immediately as the target pops up. The damage will hit at 5 seconds after being released. This allows the spells to only be 0.75 seconds of each other with the ebolt dealing the damage last.

To fast cast all you do is release your prepped spell after waiting the recast delay of 0.5 seconds and immediately cast and release the next spell after that. It is a very simple concept. This essentially means you can cast and hit with a spell 0.5 seconds faster if you wait the recast delay and the opposite if you don't.

[son]

It isn't an exploit son. If you wait out the recast delay you can hit a burst type damage instead. This was always a valid tactic in Ultima Online when they added the delay in late '98. You can spread the damage out a little or do a short burst. It all still takes the same amount of time to do though. The only difference is the style or type of damage that is dealt.

Here is the difference by fast casting and not using it with explosion ebolt combo.

Non-Fast Casting:
Cast Explosion - 1.75s
Release Explosion Immediately.
Wait Recast Delay 0.5 seconds to cast again.
Cast Ebolt - 1.75s
Release Ebolt

Explosion will hit at 3.75s after it was released. Ebolt will be finished casting at 4.0 seconds after waiting the recast delay. After it is released immediately the damage will hit at 5 seconds. Being 1.25 seconds within each other.

Fast Casting:
Cast Explosion - 1.75s
Wait Recast Delay 0.5 seconds and release.
Cast Energy Bolt - 1.75s
Release Immediately

Explosion will cast at 1.75s and be released at 2.25s. The damage for the spell won't hit until 4.25s after being released. Ebolt will be casted at 4 seconds and released immediately as the target pops up. The damage will hit at 5 seconds after being released. This allows the spells to only be 0.75 seconds of each other with the ebolt dealing the damage last.

To fast cast all you do is release your prepped spell after waiting the recast delay of 0.5 seconds and immediately cast and release the next spell after that. It is a very simple concept. This essentially means you can cast and hit with a spell 0.5 seconds faster if you wait the recast delay and the opposite if you don't.

Indeed I do remember that using the "non fast casting" method you outlined at OSI synced fine. I guess Ill have to make a razor macro that does this to a T with the .5s delay.

Is the spell delay something Run UO specific? I dont remember it at OSI.

[Faust]

Server update Nov 23 1998 10:59AM

EXPLOITS
Numerous loopholes used by third-party programs will be corrected. As we have stated before, we intend to continue moving aggressively to prevent these programs from having any utility. We don't wish to describe all of the fixes we made, so that exploiters have as little warning as possible, but one change in particular merits notice.
The "Fast last-target spellcasting" exploit will be corrected. This involved placing a small skill delay after completion of casting.

There is an article that I have read that explains fast casting written in the early UOR days. It tells you if you wait until 2.3 seconds after casting a spell like energy bolt and cast another you can cast a second spell without the recast delay effecting how far apart they both hit.

1.75 + 0.5 = 2.25

All minor skill delays are 0.5 seconds. A great example of this small skill delay is the snooping skill. I'm sure that the most of you notice "You must wait to perform another action." messages on snooping and so forth... This same small skill delay was put on spell casting to resolve an exploit involved with UOE. This is actually a good thing, because it adds more skill to PVP. The greater heal spell takes 1.25 seconds to cast. If you disrupt someone casting the spell at around 1.1 seconds into the process that applies the recast delay, which makes you not be able to recast again until 1.6 seconds. This allows for better timing on disrupts and so on. If the delay didn't exist the luck factor would raise two folds than what it is already at now.

PS
You don't have to initiate the process exactly at 0.5 seconds after casting the spell. That is the minimum time you must wait to initiate the process for the delay to not effect your second spell. You can wait the almost full 29 seconds of the 30 second timeout for the spell to start the process if you really want too.

[Red]

I've been thinking about this, and I have a memory but I can't place the era. It could have been UO:R, but I remember fastcasting exp eb on myself, and having the eb land much before the exp. Did they fiddle with the timers around UO:R when poison and inscribe came into effect as a mage?

I also remember the having to wait 2.25 seconds, but I always thought that it started after the target came up.

[Faust]

It has always been possible to have the animation hit before the explosion hits. However, the damage is delayed by one second after the ebolt was released. If you cast it on yourself the animation hits extremely quick since it doesn't travel very far, but this doesn't mean the damage hits just because the spell did. This is why I said earlier in this post that some people probably mistakened the delayed damage to be that of the explosion spell by getting both of the damages switched around.

This is the main problem with the logic that most people uses. They don't take into consideration that there has always been a damage delay on all spells except two of them at one point. Just because a spell target has been targeted before the explosion hits doesn't mean that the spell targeted will do immediate damage. Sure you can always cast a spell before the explosion hits the majority of the time but it doesn't mean it will physcially hit at that moment too.

I also remember the having to wait 2.25 seconds, but I always thought that it started after the target came up.

It does come after the target. Casting an energy bolt takes 1.75s and the target pops up. If you add 0.5 seconds onto that it would be 2.25s. However, the recast delay also happens immediately when you are disrupted while casting too.

[Waldo]

I have a feeling people are just remembering the timers wrong after so many years and playing on other servers that have been wrong for a decade now. Most people probably mistaken the damage delay on the ebolt to be that of the explosion. The majority of the same exact timers are also used in the Ultima Online Demo before t2a was even realeased. These same timers were also present in UOR and to this very day.

horrible assumption.

Many of us have not played anything besides OSI. You can type as much as you want and tell me i didnt land timed, explo/eb Hallys, explo/fs Hallys and explo/poison (pick a 3rd spell) combos... Before i started playing a dexer this was basically 95% of my PvP on OSI.

Hoots is right awful assumption..I for one never played anything but OSI and that was 97-2000 ( My wife and oldest boy also played)...Maybe our memory of things aint so good after 8 years or maybe it's the fresh air,daylight whatever.

Mazer,

The pinacle era that the majority of all UO players that played from '97-'01 agree that '99 was the most skillful of all three eras. Most agree also that '97 was the funnest.

Now on the issue of player run shards being skillful that simply comes down to the individual. I've been playing these shards for almost a decade now. No player run shard ever came even slightly close to that of the '99 era of UO in the form of being skillful. A halberd sitting on a static timer takes absolutely no skill. All player run shards has used this mechanical structure. I'm sorry but the RunUO distro package with a slight few tweaks on some of the major features that made t2a hardly counts towards making skillful PvP.

Guessing after all the time spent at the keyboard playing programming different shards for the last 10 years or so you would know best. I've been playing on T2A and reading these forums since december 2008 yes I'm a noob. Couple of things I've learned since then.
My memory is fooberd most of ours are.
Old OSI patch notes where 100% accurate and complete.
Only 1 person can be right, disagree and you failed to read, understand or your just wrong.

Faust you seem like a real asshat on these forums it can't be a easy job..cant please everyone. You stand by what you believe and strive for T2A accuracy pointing out your sources and explaining the mechanics. I appreciate your efforts and that of all the staff T2A has been fun I'm happy for the chance to play here. Bring back spell damage in town add .5sec delay on explosion damage imo would add alot to the feel of the game.

[Derrick]

The damage delay, as well as the interruptibility of spells is something that is currently getting a large about of focus. We've already discovered last night an error in our interrupt formula, and also have a good theory on where the discrepancy on the damage delay may be coming from.

There is a lot of talk about just "fixing" this by guessing, and while some of our development methods do by necessity involve leaps of interpretive faith here and there we really do try to exclude all other possibilities.

There are currently some changes to spell delays and interruptibility on our test center which are consistent so far with both memory and what else we know.

test.uosecondage.com 2593

The lag there is horrible at times, but please give it a shot. Most testing has been in the jhelom pits, and there are some resource spawners set up there.

Thanks!

[Orsi]

During T2A, the Exp/EB/Hally combo was the master of all combo's. It took a little practice to perfect though. You needed to cast Explosion, hold it enough to pass the re-cast delay (preferably hit with your Halberd during this time), release it, cast Energy Bolt, hold it for a slight moment (very slight) and release it in order for the Explosion damage to hit in sync, then go for a insta-hit.

If you didn't time it properly, someone's pre-cast Greater Heal could heal in between the Ebolt and Explosion damage, allowing them to survive the Hally hit. If the combo was timed perfectly, the Explosion/EB would both damage at the same time, and an insta-hit hally could very well almost kill someone.

The Explosion delay lasted longer than the Ebolt cast/damage delay, so if you casted the combo too fast, you're Ebolt would hurt the target before the Explosion damage went off. This is bad because after the Ebolt would hurt them, they would land their pre-casted Gheal and recover, allowing them to get hit with the Explosion/Hally and then re-cast Gheal again while you prep up again.

To re-iterate: Explosion delay was long enough for you to cast Energy Bolt and damage your opponent. The trick was to hold your EB for about a half second before you targeted in order to time it properly.

Hope this helps.

[Kaivan]

Based on the information that we have at hand, the only time where casting an explosion and an energy bolt would result in energy bolt damage first was during the first 3 months of T2A, and that is based on the assumption that explosion shared the same 1 second damage delay that energy bolt did. After that point, explosion always landed before the energy bolt. The more significant point is that insta-hit and more well-timed explosion energy bolt combos weren't available at the same time. The extended explosion delay was removed in mid January of 99, and insta-hit wasn't around until February of that year. Thus, the two systems never interacted, and an extremely focused instant 3 hit combo (instant enough to kill a person before a precast greater heal could be targeted) was not actually ever possible.

[BlackFoot]

does the distance between opponents affect the amount of time it takes for a spell to do damage?

[Faust]

It doesn't on the demo. I tested this theory when it was presented to me a couple weeks ago. Animations are completely cosmetic in UO.

[Orsi]

Based on the information that we have at hand, the only time where casting an explosion and an energy bolt would result in energy bolt damage first was during the first 3 months of T2A, and that is based on the assumption that explosion shared the same 1 second damage delay that energy bolt did. After that point, explosion always landed before the energy bolt. The more significant point is that insta-hit and more well-timed explosion energy bolt combos weren't available at the same time. The extended explosion delay was removed in mid January of 99, and insta-hit wasn't around until February of that year. Thus, the two systems never interacted, and an extremely focused instant 3 hit combo (instant enough to kill a person before a precast greater heal could be targeted) was not actually ever possible.

Yes, it was possible.

[Mjolnir]

Yes, it was possible.

yes, yes it was.. pulled from the other thread (this was an article written on september 2, 1999)-

ON LEFT MENU Click > Newbie > PvPing as a Mage
Source: http://web.archive.org/web/199905080350 ... n.com/jov/



*edit - are you telling me the link broke since i found it? *laughs* figures... but this is what it said

Simple combos: (these assume the opponent is paralyzed for the sake of simplicity)
There's always the favorite, the explosion/ebolt combo. Everyone knows that explosion doesn't immediately damage the opponent, and it's very easy to get off an ebolt in that time and making them hit simultaneously. This will do 40-60 damage all at once, which is decent, but not reliable enough to use a lot.

There's the common standby, the explosion/flamestrike combo. It takes a bit of practice to get the FS to hit when the explosion does, but once you get it, you'll know why it's used so much. It can do upwards of 70 damage very quickly.

[Faust]

Everyone knows that explosion doesn't immediately damage the opponent, and it's very easy to get off an ebolt in that time and making them hit simultaneously.

There is a difference between releasing the ebolt and the spell actually hitting. Kaivan is correct. It is literally impossible to have the ebolt damage hit before the explosion. However, with the new explosion delay they do have the capacity of hitting with in 0.25s of each other if the energy bolt is fast casted.