A programme to ensure we are all playing the same game.

[Pirul]

I am glad it won't happen.

Thanks for clearing that up Kaivan.

testuseraccount, feel free to carry-on with your discourse.

(Kaivan, I suggest you spend your time on things that might actually make it in-game one day, this is a waste of time)

[Blaise]

Who wants to play where you have to actually double click on potions to drink them...oh how fun pvp would be then!!!

Me.
If they could restrict the shard to client only, I would be stoked.

It will never happen, so breathe will not be held for a such a nerdream.

[Hemperor]

Am I missing something here, Kaivan?

Pretty much every single other online game has similar programs which do the exact same thing that OP is proposing. They work and it would be silly to think that something someone voluntarily downloads (and knows what they're downloading) would be illegal.

It's my understanding that what you've outlined has never really been the issue here when discussing this matter, but rather that Derrick wouldn't want to force people to conform to using a specific software to connect rather than the many options they have now, aside from how difficult and time consuming it may be to create such a program.

[Kaivan]

Am I missing something here, Kaivan?

Pretty much every single other online game has similar programs which do the exact same thing that OP is proposing. They work and it would be silly to think that something someone voluntarily downloads (and knows what they're downloading) would be illegal.

It's my understanding that what you've outlined has never really been the issue here when discussing this matter, but rather that Derrick wouldn't want to force people to conform to using a specific software to connect rather than the many options they have now, aside from how difficult and time consuming it may be to create such a program.

What other programs prevent you from launching any other type of program on your computer while it's running? In case you missed what was suggested:

This means, these things are possible:
- Not allowing IRC/IM/Voice programmes.
- Force closing web browsers.
- Closing keyboard macro programmes (like autohotkey).
- Closing video capture programmes.

We can basically just close all user programmes upon load, and then prevent any new ones other then the accepted UO exe to run (this can be negotiated with Derrick's shard).

[Hemperor]

Doh! I'm having a stupid day, sorry Kaivan... I thought he was proposing something to prevent Razor, EUO and the like... That's what I get for reading (assuming) while at work...

Sorry, can't argue for your side OP, it's pretty ridiculous and not era accurate. There was plenty of voice chat and IRC in the day, not that there is any way of preventing people from communicating outside of the client.

[testuseraccount]

Hemperor: Yes, that is what I am proposing.

Kaivan don't confuse the message with what you want to see of it.

The things are listed, are possible; and yes: In the context of the game they are cheating, why? Because they were never put into the game in the first place.

To play a game by the rules is to properly follow its outlined design and intended rules at the time of play: This applies to monopoly, or backgammon or chess or pong or whatever.

You can never refute that, no matter how delusional you wish to be.

And by the very nature of a sandbox programme, unless it be an actual VM; which requires a completely higher level of design and implement, it can be detected and prevented from being loaded. Why? Because of the very nature of a sandbox, which is meant to limit *something* and the fact that it is inherently attached to an O/s (not a VM) means that; CAN NOT be hidden in any form or fashion.

PS: Hemp, there was never anything stopping anyone from coming over to your house (if they knew you) and kicking you in the butt, either

[Arsen]

we once had a guy with similar ideas in germany...

[Hemperor]

Hemperor: Yes, that is what I am proposing.

Kaivan don't confuse the message with what you want to see of it.

The things are listed, are possible; and yes: In the context of the game they are cheating, why? Because they were never put into the game in the first place.

To play a game by the rules is to properly follow its outlined design and intended rules at the time of play: This applies to monopoly, or backgammon or chess or pong or whatever.

You can never refute that, no matter how delusional you wish to be.

You'd have to be delusional to even think for a second that it's possible to prevent people communicating in IRC and over VOIP.

And by the very nature of a sandbox programme, unless it be an actual VM; which requires a completely higher level of design and implement, it can be detected and prevented from being loaded. Why? Because of the very nature of a sandbox, which is meant to limit *something* and the fact that it is inherently attached to an O/s (not a VM) means that; CAN NOT be hidden in any form or fashion.

What would your program be searching for? MSN, ICQ, AIM, the custom TCP application I just made in 5 minutes that can send messages back and forth?

PS: Hemp, there was never anything stopping anyone from coming over to your house (if they knew you) and kicking you in the butt, either

What?

[testuseraccount]

Thats nice arsen; i'd say its more that he had some awsome ideas but crappy means, but Germany is smart and learns! So instead this time they are conquering europe with economics and eugenics (Instead of death and destruction)

Hemperor, Its not delusional, but if someone buys a second computer or another device just to do so, then i'd say they are pretty far down that stream themselves and little anyone can do will stop them.

The point is hemp, is that it would stop all other programs from existing in the user space, in other words; that hacky program you made wouldn't be allowed to run for longer then the time it takes for this program to detect it (nano-seconds?).

What im saying, is that every layer of the human experience has inherent rules and if you had a friend who broke those, he probably wouldn't be a friend anymore (unless you were less then worldly as a person). Games are just another layer of that and they come with rules inside the packaging...

[Hemperor]

Thats nice arsen; i'd say its more that he had some awsome ideas but crappy means, but Germany is smart and learns! So instead this time they are conquering europe with economics and eugenics

Hemperor, Its not delusional, but if someone buys a second computer or another device just to do so, then i'd say they are pretty far down that stream themselves and little anyone can do will stop them.

The point is hemp, is that it would stop all other programs from existing in the user space, in other words; that hacky program you made wouldn't be allowed to run for longer then the time it takes for this program to detect it (nano-seconds?).

My point is that you couldn't possibly detect it. Are you aware of how many services and programs at any given time have network sockets running? How would you know my tiny app (which literally would take 5 minutes) is for communicating outside of the UO client? You would have no way possible.

What im saying, is that every layer of the human experience has inherent rules and if you had a friend who broke those, he probably wouldn't be a friend anymore (unless you were less then worldly as a person). Games are just another layer of that and they come with rules inside the packaging...

I understand what you are saying, however this is not a board game and it's not realistic or pratical to think we could ever prevent it.

[testuseraccount]

Hemp, yes; you can detect it, very easily infact; thats what I was saying about "whitelisting" and not "blacklisting". Basically you create a virtual "sandbox" by forcing all other user programs but this one to close and then every so interval you check for any new processes and forcefully close them.

If user space isn't enough, we can get it to run as admin to have control over services as well, in which that case we would just need a whistlist of services, because Windows can run without alot of its own default ones let alone additional.

Why do you think consoles are continuosly popular? It is because its harder to cheat because the game most of the time is the actual O/S (or has one built in). Closed systems always provide a better experience because it helps to assure that everyone is experiencing the same experience and not a multitude of perverted/differenciated ones (assuring fairness).

It is entirely practical; that's what im trying to say.

[Light Shade]

Not to be rude, but Derrick wouldn't even require people to use Razor so that they could use the "Negotiate Features With Server Option" to enforce ERA ACCURACY.

It was considered to be blocking potential players from playing on the shard.

If you think he's going to go about 32 steps beyond that, then you're seriously fooling yourself.

[testuseraccount]

Well; then I am Light Shade....

I am simply representing a deep desire of Derrick's.

If he wishes to say otherwise, he can; but until then I will assume this course because I know it's whats best for the shard.

[Moppety]

Autistic troll is autistic

[Pirul]

I am simply representing a deep desire of Derrick's.

If he wishes to say otherwise, he can; but until then I will assume this course because I know it's whats best for the shard.

RRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight