What about thievery?

[inmani]

I don't typically respond this way, but you seriously need to clean up your post in order to make it readable. There are a ton of things to refute, but I can't be tasked with untangling your post in order to do it.

Refute it let's take a look at the last client patch before the release of T2A shall we? Are you with us? Not anymore!

Bold represents stuff directly, indirectly, or coincidentally aimed at UOExtreme
Underline represents stuff aimed toward criminal minded types basically anyone that isn't a smurf which keeps OSI's dicks hard at night.

Client 1.25.35 - 09/16/98 last client prior to T2A Ultima Online Patch Notes:

Several measures will be put in place against users of UOExtreme and UOPlugin.
You will no longer be able to see hidden and invisible people with it.
Bank box exploits will be fixed.
Stealing exploits will be fixed.
Use of scissors now checks line of sight.

You are now revealed if you speak while hidden.
Hiding now checks line of sight, so you can run to the other side of a wall or building and successfully hide.
Healing criminals and murderers now applies a criminal flag to the healer
A lengthy delay applies after healing.
You can no longer drink potions when you hve bows or crossbows equipped, or indeed any other two-handed weapon. You can still do it if you have one hand free.
Looting while hidden will result in becoming unhidden.
It will no longer be possible to gate monsters. Only escorts, hirelings, pets, and summoned creatures.
Bankers will not do business with criminals.
Healers will not resurrect temporary criminals.
Spell reflection should no longer cause the player with reflection to be flagged criminal.

Having read that don't tell me OSI didn't have a hardon against UOExtreme and criminals because your full of shit. Overwhelming evidence speaks otherwise enjoy your shitty safe and secure little play box though. I'd sooner play a PVE game than terrible PVP provided.

You have thought by now UO private servers would be accurate. Nope they aren't still inaccurate RunUO Razor knockoffs. Part of the thrill of early UO was the thrill of not being able to anticipate what to expect. OSI took that initial game model philosophy and shit on it.

[archaicsubrosa77]

^ Ban him, he does not want to be here. Game breaking aspects like revealing hidden players instantly dont belong. Razor is nothing like UOE from what I heard.

[Kaivan]

I don't typically respond this way, but you seriously need to clean up your post in order to make it readable. There are a ton of things to refute, but I can't be tasked with untangling your post in order to do it.

Refute it

You didn't read what I said, did you?

let's take a look at the last client patch before the release of T2A shall we? Are you with us? Not anymore!

Sure let's take a look, this should be fun.

Bold represents stuff directly, indirectly, or coincidentally aimed at UOExtreme

How would you determine whether something was coincidentally aimed at UOE? Sounds like you could just claim anything is coincidentally aimed at it, but hey, it should be easy enough to refute that kind of claim.

Underline represents stuff aimed toward criminal minded types basically anyone that isn't a smurf which keeps OSI's dicks hard at night.

Oh boy, this part should be really good.

Client 1.25.35 - 09/16/98 last client prior to T2A Ultima Online Patch Notes:

Several measures will be put in place against users of UOExtreme and UOPlugin.
You will no longer be able to see hidden and invisible people with it.
Bank box exploits will be fixed.
Stealing exploits will be fixed.

Congratulations, you've listed the 3 things that they directly listed in their patch notes as fixes for 3rd party programs. Too bad this isn't just aimed at UOE, and is a general fix to some problems exploited by multiple 3rd party programs. You can't simultaneously claim that they had a "hard on" regarding UOE and then list fixes that are addressed at two different programs. At best you can say that they wanted to fix some exploits, which surprisingly, is exactly what you would expect from any software developer.

Use of scissors now checks line of sight.

Ahh, this must be your "coincidentally" aimed at UOE part. Too bad that this isn't listed as a fix related to UOE under OSI's patch notes, nor is this aimed at UOE in any way. As it turns out, you can double click scissors and target things with scissors with just the bare client. Surprising, I know, but the fact that UOE could get you to target more things has nothing to do with fixing a glaring bug in the behavior of scissors. Oh, you forgot the patch note about using dye tubs through walls too.

You are now revealed if you speak while hidden.

How is this aimed at the "criminally minded" in any way? You do realize that innocent players could still speak while hidden as well, right? This is just a behavioral change regarding the way that hiding was treated, nothing more. Oh, and this is a bug fix to an earlier attempt to reveal a player when they speak first introduced with the 4/13/98 patch notes:

Speaking while invisible or hidden now reveals the player.

I guess that under your own premise, OSI was curbing criminal behavior long before T2A, right? Ruining UO since 1997!

Hiding now checks line of sight, so you can run to the other side of a wall or building and successfully hide.

Again, how is this aimed at the criminally minded? Warring guilds existed at the time, and virtue guilds had been around for quite some time. This change affected those player just as much as it did anyone else. Oh wait, smurfs, I forgot.

Healing criminals and murderers now applies a criminal flag to the healer

Finally, we got one! I guess that being held responsible for your criminal actions is a terrible idea that ruined the game.

A lengthy delay applies after healing.

Seriously, did you even read the patch notes, or did you look for tag lines that you thought were sensationalist talking points for your post?

This change is in the context of the revamp to healing which gave healers the ability to cure poison and resurrect dead players, a feature that players had pointed out was missing for the skill relative to magery. Oh, and before this patch, healers would instantaneously heal their targets for a much lower amount of damage, but then the target could not be healed by anyone with the healing skill for the next 3 minutes. This is a pretty obvious set of improvements and changes to the skill, unless healing for a greater amount, adding new functions, reducing the overall delay, and changing the location of the delay, was somehow aimed at the criminally minded.

You can no longer drink potions when you hve bows or crossbows equipped, or indeed any other two-handed weapon. You can still do it if you have one hand free.

So fixing a bug where certain two handed weapons were not correctly accounted for was a fix aimed at the criminally minded. I guess all the innocent players who could just double click their potions with a bow equipped had nothing to do with it.

Looting while hidden will result in becoming unhidden.

Asking the same rhetorical question is old at this point. Your definition of patches aimed at the criminally minded is so wide that anything could fall under it.

It will no longer be possible to gate monsters. Only escorts, hirelings, pets, and summoned creatures.

Blah, blah, criminally minded, yadda, yadda.

Bankers will not do business with criminals.
Healers will not resurrect temporary criminals.

You got two more! I still fail to see the point behind this entire exercise.

Spell reflection should no longer cause the player with reflection to be flagged criminal.

Did you just ctrl+f and look for lines with the word criminal in it? This has absolutely nothing to do with the criminally minded, but is a bug fix to take a defensive spell meant to protect a player and make it work properly.

As a final tally, you were 3 for 10, a failing grade.

Having read that don't tell me OSI didn't have a hardon against UOExtreme and criminals because your full of shit. Overwhelming evidence speaks otherwise enjoy your shitty safe and secure little play box though. I'd sooner play a PVE game than terrible PVP provided.

Your definition of "evidence" is so loose that it loses any meaning. But you've made your position clear, and your time here is up.

You have thought by now UO private servers would be accurate.

You have virtually no idea what it means to be accurate or not.

Part of the thrill of early UO was the thrill of not being able to anticipate what to expect.

Except for the players using UOE, of course, which was a boon to the game (I don't even...).

OSI took that initial game model philosophy and shit on it.

You have zero clue what the original game philosophy was. Absolutely zero clue.

[Kadull]

having played a thief for 15 years now, I have to say that I have never read so many erroneous facts, or bad logic and arguments on the topic in my life.

The player base (and what appears to be a staff member?) seems to be pretty god damn oblivious to how or why thieves operate the way they do...

[Kaivan]

How & why, exactly, do thieves operate in this manner?

[Kadull]

In all honesty, you are so off beat that I truly don't want to enter this conversation any further than suggesting you study logic, reasoning, and argument.

I don't have hours to spend teaching you things you've clearly never learned.

[Kaivan]

So you have no statements regarding the way that thieves operated or why they operated that way? Then there is nothing to discuss one way or the other.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Why all the nerdrage? This did not start off as polite discussion and that cued me off right away. We have pretty open politics concerning era discussions there is no reason to come in belligerent.