Some clarification on rules please

[inkognito]

What's less honorable and distinguished than a fucking janitor? A reverse janitor.

Master of Custodial Arts...sir...Please don't ridicule Pac's future profession.

[Malaikat]

Apparently you have no ability to read or comprehend, because I've already been told to quit trash bombing by the staff. If they allow me to continue bombing, it will be against people who actually play the game.

Oh, I can read. I'm fully aware you could face punishment if you continue...

[UO19862005]

What's less honorable and distinguished than a fucking janitor?

An IT tech.

I don't think small door bombing is punishable either, which is why I have asked for clarification.

[WOODY]

I remember you bill
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=59078

[UO19862005]

Exactly, you've been harassing me for years which is why I'm going to harass you now and if the staff doesn't let me defend myself I'll find a new server.

[Malaikat]

What's less honorable and distinguished than a fucking janitor?

An IT tech.

I don't think small door bombing is punishable either, which is why I have asked for clarification.

Hah. Who can't read now? I asked Elk if GE were hiring executive level IT staff. I'm not a tech, newb. I'm a fucking director.

[UO19862005]

That's even worse, I suggest you look for a real job that contributes to the economy. You're not a director of fake jobs either since you were asking for the position in the first place. This post is for the clarification of carpet bombing rules, I don't care about your aspirations.

[Kaivan]

I'll explain what our current rules regarding trash bombs are on house steps.

First to answer the basic question, we currently do allow trash bombs to be placed, but we have two limitations on their usage.

Our first limitation on trash bombs is that we do not allow excessively large trash bombs to be placed on doorsteps. This isn't some hard fast number that any person is free to run up to, but if a trash bomb is found that is larger than approximately 1200 items, you will get into trouble as this causes severe client lag for players, and can cause severe network lag as well.

The second limitation on trash bombs is the frequency. Again, we don't have some hard fast limit on how often trash bombs can be done, but as an example, if we receive 10 different requests to clean up trash bombs in the span of 2 to 3 days, we will ask the person who is doing the trash bombs to stop targeting whoever they are targeting.

Now, to expand on why we have the current rules, the reasoning is simple. First, the only reason that we allow trash bombs at all is due to the fact that we offer to clean them up should they happen. While this can be considered a general form of griefing, there is no protection against it short of no longer owning a house, which is an unreasonable requirement to have for any player, which is why we step in to begin with. In essence, this is a method for allowing players to try and express themselves using a mechanic in a specific way. Second, as a result of this relationship, we must place limitations on how often a player can do this, since we do offer to step in when necessary. If a player is abusing this privilege and forcing us to intercede too often, we'll tell them to stop with their current practices, because we can't be expected to step in every day to clean up these trash bombs.

Finally, it should be noted that trash bombing anything but the steps of a house is not allowed, and we will take appropriate action against any player who has intentionally trash bombed the inside of a building. I have recently had to clean up several such trash bombs, and these trash bombs go way beyond the limitations of what we are allowing, and the clean up time is much more involved.

Also, take the rest of this banter to trash talk. This isn't the place to discuss job positions.

[Galendae]

UO19862005 =Bill

[farnk]

[UO19862005]

I'll explain what our current rules regarding trash bombs are on house steps.

First to answer the basic question, we currently do allow trash bombs to be placed, but we have two limitations on their usage.

Our first limitation on trash bombs is that we do not allow excessively large trash bombs to be placed on doorsteps. This isn't some hard fast number that any person is free to run up to, but if a trash bomb is found that is larger than approximately 1200 items, you will get into trouble as this causes severe client lag for players, and can cause severe network lag as well.

The second limitation on trash bombs is the frequency. Again, we don't have some hard fast limit on how often trash bombs can be done, but as an example, if we receive 10 different requests to clean up trash bombs in the span of 2 to 3 days, we will ask the person who is doing the trash bombs to stop targeting whoever they are targeting.

Now, to expand on why we have the current rules, the reasoning is simple. First, the only reason that we allow trash bombs at all is due to the fact that we offer to clean them up should they happen. While this can be considered a general form of griefing, there is no protection against it short of no longer owning a house, which is an unreasonable requirement to have for any player, which is why we step in to begin with. In essence, this is a method for allowing players to try and express themselves using a mechanic in a specific way. Second, as a result of this relationship, we must place limitations on how often a player can do this, since we do offer to step in when necessary. If a player is abusing this privilege and forcing us to intercede too often, we'll tell them to stop with their current practices, because we can't be expected to step in every day to clean up these trash bombs.

Finally, it should be noted that trash bombing anything but the steps of a house is not allowed, and we will take appropriate action against any player who has intentionally trash bombed the inside of a building. I have recently had to clean up several such trash bombs, and these trash bombs go way beyond the limitations of what we are allowing, and the clean up time is much more involved.

Also, take the rest of this banter to trash talk. This isn't the place to discuss job positions.

Thanks for the reply Kaivan. The three issues I have are this-

#1- Admins are never "forced to intercede" or I would NEVER trash bomb, I respect the UOSA staff too much to do that! It's my understanding that admins on UOSA clean up trash bombs at their own discretion, unless the bomb is over 1200 items like you have mentioned. (I purposely make my bombs much smaller for this reason, and I only bomb on the steps)

With that in mind, the only people "abusing privileges" too often are the ones continually asking admins to clean up their homes, which is in fact a privilege to be granted at an admins discretion unless the policies have changed without my knowledge.

#2- It's not accurate to claim that trash bombs are legal if I'm no longer allowed to trash bomb after complaints, because everyone complains after being trash bombed.

#3- The protection from trash bombs are (A)- Don't let your enemies find out where you live. (B)- Buy a new house or have an alternate house (C)- Block the trash bomber's recall spots. (D)- Kill the trash bomber. (E)- Quit harassing the trash bomber / apologize for harassing him / pay him to quit. (F)- Use a boat instead of a house (G) There's another good defense that I will let them figure out on their own

I respectfully disagree that the only protection against door bombs is to be homeless. There are many solutions in my opinion if they think outside of the box or try to use a little diplomacy, instead of being continual ganking jerks in the field and crying to admins for help every time they get a taste of their own grief medicine. I never call admins when they bomb me, I just return it to them and save money on supplies

My griefing is no different from their griefing, I don't lag the server, and staff are not obligated help them. As a matter of fact, if I'm allowed to continue my legal trash bombs like I should be, I'd appreciate it if you guys would quit cleaning up my masterpieces!

[Treysta]

dude the bottom line is that if the GMs are asking to cut it out, you've gone too far

[Capitalist]

dude the bottom line is that if the GMs are asking to cut it out, you've gone too far

I've seen cases where it ends up being that GMs are simply interfering because too many no ball having players who don't really believe in era accuracy, much less something that is a thorn in their side, are reporting them daily and generally just harassing staff.

[UO19862005]

dude the bottom line is that if the GMs are asking to cut it out, you've gone too far

The only reason I would quit is because I respect the staff for what they have done with UO, but that doesn't make what I'm doing wrong. I'm just playing the game and it's my opinion that I should be allowed to continue a legal activity that does not interfere with the staff or server, admins aren't obligated to clean door bombs and I don't create lag.

Would you quit killing someone if the staff asked you to? Probably, because you respect the staff, but that doesn't make it a legitimate or fair request. Admins should not waste their time cleaning minor trash bombs. In my opinion it's borderline interference, and frankly, I am astonished that Vega has agreed with me about something.

[Kaivan]

#1- Admins are never "forced to intercede" or I would NEVER trash bomb, I respect the UOSA staff too much to do that! It's my understanding that admins on UOSA clean up trash bombs at their own discretion, unless the bomb is over 1200 items like you have mentioned. (I purposely make my bombs much smaller for this reason, and I only bomb on the steps)

Actually, as I stated before, we only allow trash bombs because we will clean them up, not the other way around. If we did not offer support in cleaning up these trash bombs, they wouldn't be allowed at all.

With that in mind, the only people "abusing privileges" too often are the ones continually asking admins to clean up their homes, which is in fact a privilege to be granted at an admins discretion unless the policies have changed without my knowledge.

Players are free to request help with sizable trash bombs, and we'll try to help when we're around. It's not an abuse of the system to do that when we specifically say that it can be done that way.

#2- It's not accurate to claim that trash bombs are legal if I'm no longer allowed to trash bomb after complaints, because everyone complains after being trash bombed.

As a general statement, it is absolutely true that trash bombs are still legal to produce. You're taking a single instance of trash bomb use and extrapolating a nonexistent general rule. Trash bombs are currently allowed, and if a GM has told you to lay off trash bombing a particular person, then don't trash bomb that person.

#3- The protection from trash bombs are (A)- Don't let your enemies find out where you live. (B)- Buy a new house or have an alternate house (C)- Block the trash bombers recall spots. (D)- Kill the trash bomber. (E)- Quit harassing the trash bomber / apologize for harassing him / pay him to quit. (F)- Use a boat instead of a house (G) There's another good defense that I will let them figure out on their own

In order:

A: This is as effective as saying that the best method to avoid being PKed is not to log on. No practical method for accomplishing this is provided.
B: This is much the same as above, if someone is interested in finding out where you live, alternate housing is just as easy to locate.
C: Blocking a few recall locations does nothing to address the fact that a house exists in a fixed map location.
D: There are time differences between players, and unless your hypothesis is that you should always be on all the time, this is not practical.
E: This implies that the only time a player is trash bombed it is done in retaliation for some act. This is not the case.
F: Boats are vastly different from houses, both in protection and storage capacity. This is not a reasonable solution.

My griefing is no different from their griefing, I don't lag the server, and staff are not obligated help them. As a matter of fact, if I'm allowed to continue my legal trash bombs like I should be, I'd appreciate it if you guys would quit cleaning up my masterpieces!

Actually, trash bombs are different than other forms of griefing, and we treat them differently as a result. Additionally, players are allowed to request our help with cleaning up any trash bomb. This is what the rule is, and if another administrator has told you to stop placing trash bombs against a particular player, please follow those instructions.

You now have your answer regarding the rules surrounding trash bombs.