Thoughts on the latest Patch

[Faust]

Here is a simple way looking at this issue... The spell delays were changed when AOS was released based on the new system involving items reducing them. The default delay for recovery time is 1.5 in modern UO while the casting delays are 1.0 seconds.

We know for certain that the spell casting delays here are accurate based on the results from the demo and spell guides for the UOR era. The formula for casting delays is ( 0.25 + ( 0.25 * circle ) ) for spells. This equates to a value starting at 0.5 for the first circle spells. This means that the starting delay was increased by a hundred percent upon the release of the AOS expansion. By adding items with the faster casting attribute you could lower this delay back to the normal value of 0.5 cap for spell delays.

If you take this fact into consideration the same process should have been adjusted for the recovery delay too. The default value of the recovery delay in AOS is 1.5 seconds. If you reduce this value by a hundred percent just like in the previous case that sits exactly at the level we were previously at this being a 0.75 second recovery delay.

This simple process in my opinion clearly tells you that the recovery delay should be sitting at 0.75 seconds like it was before any of these changes took place.

[Tronica]

There is no talk about the action delay in here?

I was talking with Loops earlier, and came to the conclusion that some of my issues is going from my lag.

Such as not being able to use my potion macros while armed anymore becasue it gives me the action que after disarming my haly. I have to manual hit disarm, drink, rearm, instead of being able to press my drink macro. And on top of that, I have to do it slowly, to make sure I do not get the que.

And say I have casted an eb, and am waiting out my recast delay, I have my wep armed, and am tabbed out. I approach my opponent, hit my atk last, disarm, and target spell. If I try and do this fast, and hit atk last right before disarming, thus controlling my hit, I get the action que.

The thing is it doesn't happen everytime, even if I duplicate the action. So there could be some lag issues.
I was also talking to someone from -F- the other day who had a similar experience and said if it wasn't for his m8's he would have died 3 times to being qued. Cataclysm said some similar stuff.

I think it comes from trying certain actions to fast, but I do not remember this from t2a, and on t2a we had even more lag.

For instance, dbl clicking someone name while in war mode, is the same thing as hitting atk last. If you double click someone, you cannot disarm a weapon or do any other action that would que, becasue you are in delay from dbl clicking. I do not think that is accurate.

I have no problem with debuff disrupt every cast - thats accurate, i know it is, the recast timer feels about right, and the disrupt timer, i do feel is to long.

My issues are with stam based insta hits, and universal action delays.

[time2a]

aye stam and action que, ihad always hit a disarm macro potion macro then re arm rofl...i guess they are better ways for this

[Vlastslav]

whats on test currently is clearly the best we have had rly well ballanced system.

ballance makes pvp.

You actually have it wrong, an unbalanced pvp game, creates pvp. Not balance.

[Finesse]

tronica u dont remeber this because uo assist didnt have auto disarm to drink potions.

[Tronica]

tronica u dont remeber this because uo assist didnt have auto disarm to drink potions.

That doesn't cover everything.

I spent about 5 hours dueling last night, and multiple times I wasn't even able to cast my spells because upon hitting my spell hotkey I got the msg "you cannot cast spells with your hands fulls" or whatever.

The action delay was preventing me from disarming weapon to cast the spell.

I will say tho, that the interupt delays are exactly what we needed (i was saying this for weeks tho) and that the pvp has evolved to include a more diverse allotment of spells. And it is fun. I enjoyed it very much.

This action delay is clunky as hell tho and besides the atk last throttle, I don't see the benefit.

[Orsi]

Debuffs never disrupted when they were already applied. What is wrong with you people, interruption was never 100% guaranteed. If that were the case, a 2v1 encounter would of always consisted of one person Weakening constantly while the other guy unloads a few ebolts.

[EVeee]

My relatively new-guy, non elite PvPer thoughts on the last patch are that it blows. I have a 7xgm dexer, made a macro for him to auto-cure/refresh/pop trapped pouch and have hotkeys for bandage/drink heal. Worked like a charm, I fought with it many times. Fast forward to today's Double Domination when I break him out for the first time since this patch, and all I get the entire time is "you must wait to perform another action". He was crippled - couldn't even use the goddamn Drink Heal macro by itself without getting that message - and so of course he got whupped hard.
I don't know what the reasoning for the change was but now I have to keep him penned while I relearn everything, and that's no fun.

[venox]

My relatively new-guy, non elite PvPer thoughts on the last patch are that it blows. I have a 7xgm dexer, made a macro for him to auto-cure/refresh/pop trapped pouch and have hotkeys for bandage/drink heal. Worked like a charm, I fought with it many times. Fast forward to today's Double Domination when I break him out for the first time since this patch, and all I get the entire time is "you must wait to perform another action". He was crippled - couldn't even use the goddamn Drink Heal macro by itself without getting that message - and so of course he got whupped hard.
I don't know what the reasoning for the change was but now I have to keep him penned while I relearn everything, and that's no fun.

you have to change your queue delay time to 1000 to drink pots!

[Tronica]

My relatively new-guy, non elite PvPer thoughts on the last patch are that it blows. I have a 7xgm dexer, made a macro for him to auto-cure/refresh/pop trapped pouch and have hotkeys for bandage/drink heal. Worked like a charm, I fought with it many times. Fast forward to today's Double Domination when I break him out for the first time since this patch, and all I get the entire time is "you must wait to perform another action". He was crippled - couldn't even use the goddamn Drink Heal macro by itself without getting that message - and so of course he got whupped hard.
I don't know what the reasoning for the change was but now I have to keep him penned while I relearn everything, and that's no fun.

you have to change your queue delay time to 1000 to drink pots!

which in turn slow downs all your other actions.

[venox]

for everyone!

[Faust]

I am still trying to figure out who actually agreed to these rediculously long recovery delays...

The only person that I am aware of is Loops... I haven't seen one other person besides him say that these delays are good let alone being accurate. He has already stated that he doesn't care about accuracy and prefers balance over anything else. I didn't even see anyone besides him during the testing phase of these delays say it was any good.

Who else exactly said these delays are good?

[Pro]

nah these delays are shit I've got the same problem as tron 2/3 times i try to pot.

[Derrick]

Setting the queue action delay in Razor to a higher number has been reported to solve the problem with using the auto disarm/rearm for potion use.

[Faust]

Update:

The guide that has the information regarding the 0.5 recovery delay is located here. The guide, which was written a few months after AoS came out, notes the values available at that time, and also references the values that were used before AoS. Here is a brief cut and paste from the guide that highlights the pertinent information:

Faster Cast and its little brother Fast Cast Recovery.

Seems fairly straight forward to most, but this basically means, that you Cast and recover faster. Wasn't so hard eh? But whats this mean to you? Simply put if your opponent is casting at FC 2 / FCR 4 (the old default) and you dont match this speed, you have very little chance of winning, as this effectively means getting off double the spells in the same time frame.

This mentions the 2/4 requirement to backtrack to the old values used during UOR.

<Straight cut, havent meddled with krrios' work at all, major kudos to him for it too [img]/php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif[/img], this is mostly as i havent done my own research and cant highly comment on this, but it all appears accurate. has anyone verified that there is truth/no truth behind LordKambria's claim? krrios post>
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as quoted from a developer, a minimum of 0.25 has been applied to the casting delay


-3 FC -2 FC -1 FC 0 FC 1 FC 2 FC 3 FC 4 FC
First 1.75 1.50 1.25 1.00 0.75 0.50 0.25 0.25
Second 2.00 1.75 1.50 1.25 1.00 0.75 0.50 0.25
Third 2.25 2.00 1.75 1.50 1.25 1.00 0.75 0.50
Fourth 2.50 2.25 2.00 1.75 1.50 1.25 1.00 0.75
Fifth 2.75 2.50 2.25 2.00 1.75 1.50 1.25 1.00
Sixth 3.00 2.75 2.50 2.25 2.00 1.75 1.50 1.25
Seventh 3.25 3.00 2.75 2.50 2.25 2.00 1.75 1.50
Eighth 3.50 3.25 3.00 2.75 2.50 2.25 2.00 1.75


0 FCR 1 FCR 2 FCR 3 FCR 4 FCR 5 FCR 6 FCR 7 FCR 8 FCR 9 FCR
Recovery Delay 1.50 1.25 1.00 0.75 0.50 0.25 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

This actually outlines the time delays that were discovered at the time. At zero faster cast the delay was 1.0 seconds, and at zero faster cast recovery the delay was 1.5 seconds. Given the fact that each point in faster cast or faster cast recovery would effectively push your delay down by 1 tick, a value of 2/4 would result in a first circle delay of 0.5 seconds would match the values that are used here and recorded elsewhere, and a value of 4 for the faster cast recovery would result in a recovery delay of 0.5 seconds. Thus, this shows that the delay during UOR was set at 0.5 seconds.

Now that we have a source of information in regard to this delay this should be fixed immediately. There is no basis for the current delay to reflect the changes that happened on the test center recently. It was simply based on a few players perception of balance in my opinion to reduce the effectiveness of spamming lower circles.

This recovery delay length makes aboslute sense and backs up my previous belief that the delay was in fact 0.5 seconds here awhile back. The reason this delay makes a lot of sense is quite simple. The guide for the recovery delay is based on the maximum spell delay of 2.25 for an eighth circle spell, while the recovery delay itself is based on the minimum circle value of 0.5 for a first circle spell.

There is no substance or evidence to back up the claims of a 1 second recovery delay in existence anywhere. Now that there is some form of evidence that exists to permit this change it should happen asap.

PS
I think the whole problem that evolved from this issue surrounds the in mani(heal) spell. I guarentee everyone that agreed to these long delays dislike spamming this spell. This is a valid issue that people has though. What is more than likely the problem is the amount that this spell healed during the t2a era. The spell took a huge leap when the UOR era was introduced giving a value of 10% magery plus 1-4 hitpoints. The value should be roughly around 5% magery and plus 1-4 hitpoints.

The greater heal spell has a value of 40% magery and plus 1-10 hitpoints.