Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
Regarding pvmers, I think the idea is that on a healthy shard, pks will keep them in check.
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
yes we all know PvM has an effect on the economic system, yet it does NOT abuse the rules of purpose of the system.cletus wrote: My point, as always, is that with vendor gold limits resource macroing is less of an abuse than many people seem to think. PvMers will always inject more "money from nothing" into the economy than any resource macroers. I agree it needs to be cracked down on but the reality is that if the argument is against inflation the value of gold being diluted than you simply cannot ignore the effects PvM have on the economic system.
this is about unattended gathering, of ANY KIND.
something that is NOT possible with PvM.
by allowing this you simply skew the value of miners and blacksmiths. and thus reduce the dynamic and interaction of a diverse server.
sorry i feel i have to capitalize my text, but all those who dont see the harm in this are side stepping the issue.
East Britian Bowyer and Weaponsmith
Guildmaster of BoO
Guildmaster of BoO
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
cletus wrote:Who cares? Resource macroing is not that great here because there are NPC gold limits. More supply = lower costs. There is a whole thread of butthurt vets crying about people being able to GM blacksmithing for cheaper, lol
The real problem to watch out for is monster farming. With such a low population there exists the very real problem of people just having tamers and hunting high gold monsters for quick trips to the bank and creating gold for basically nothing and with little risk (the PKs are are pretty shitty) thereby simply bringing dumptrucks of gold into the economy pretty much non stop. This is, in my opinion, a more pressing concern as while resource macroers can farm all day long they still have to go through players who can bargain for lower prices.
Lower gold drop amounts and vendor buyback rates so that it slows the input of gold into the system while also enforcing the rules for once.
This has to be the most flawed logic I've seen concerning the game and economy.
Has it occured to you that PvM is the heart of the economy's design? Crafters and the like were designed to support PvM and soak up their GP.
In fact, PvM is the only real way for new players to both play the game and make gp.
Last edited by Kraarug on Mon May 11, 2009 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
Monster farming is a problem? I can't believe this whole time I didn't realize that UO was intended for AFK resource gathering!
I would like to humbly apologize to the UOSA community for using my gold to buy potions, kegs, weapons, scrolls, runebooks, etc. from their vendors. I wasn't aware that a legitimate player market would so adversely affect the overall era accuracy of this wonderful shard.
I would like to humbly apologize to the UOSA community for using my gold to buy potions, kegs, weapons, scrolls, runebooks, etc. from their vendors. I wasn't aware that a legitimate player market would so adversely affect the overall era accuracy of this wonderful shard.
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
Roll eyes and criticism aside you can't possibly expect me to buy the argument that UO IS FOR PVM ONLY. BLACKSMITHS SUPPORT PVM.
To clarify, I simply support increasing loot tables on lower level mobs while lowering them on the higher level mobs. I am not advocating letting people afk resource macro. The truth is that a very very small segment of the population does this and with slightly better policing it would cease to be a real issue. However, claiming that AFK resource macroers destroy the economy and cause all kinds of problems is just misinformed. If you want to slow gold inflation you either have to provide gold sinks or attempt to lower the amount of gold going into the system.
For the comment about buying regs and potions.. they are simply a drop in the bucket compared to the gold taken in. A tamer simply casting gate a few times and using a couple bandages can earn thousands of gold so while yes, the startup costs for pvm are higher than a minerbot in terms of mass gold miners and LJ bots do not compare unless they are on a server with no vendor gold limits and they can smith the items for easy gold.
To clarify, I simply support increasing loot tables on lower level mobs while lowering them on the higher level mobs. I am not advocating letting people afk resource macro. The truth is that a very very small segment of the population does this and with slightly better policing it would cease to be a real issue. However, claiming that AFK resource macroers destroy the economy and cause all kinds of problems is just misinformed. If you want to slow gold inflation you either have to provide gold sinks or attempt to lower the amount of gold going into the system.
For the comment about buying regs and potions.. they are simply a drop in the bucket compared to the gold taken in. A tamer simply casting gate a few times and using a couple bandages can earn thousands of gold so while yes, the startup costs for pvm are higher than a minerbot in terms of mass gold miners and LJ bots do not compare unless they are on a server with no vendor gold limits and they can smith the items for easy gold.
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
UO was designed for PvM. I'm not saying that PvP wasn't part of the plan but the idea, from reading the UOHOC and other sources of DD this game was to allow people to play ULTIMA with others.
And messing with loot tables would first not be Era accurate and secondly only cause higher end players to PK more and thus kill off the shard.
What wasn't in the desing for sure was heavy resource gathering and that is what this post was about until it got derailed.
Nowhere can you find anything from the dev board supporting 'let's make this a resource gathering centric game for l337 pvpers'. It's just simply not the designs goal.
And messing with loot tables would first not be Era accurate and secondly only cause higher end players to PK more and thus kill off the shard.
What wasn't in the desing for sure was heavy resource gathering and that is what this post was about until it got derailed.
Nowhere can you find anything from the dev board supporting 'let's make this a resource gathering centric game for l337 pvpers'. It's just simply not the designs goal.
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
Some pvp'ers have a really hard time understanding that people play this game for different reasons then them.
[broken image]
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
pretty much.
and i feel people like cletus are continually trying to compare the value of ingots to gold. which are two different commonodies. that change dependant on their circumstance.
this is not an issue of who makes more gold or what is more valuable.
it is about going through the appropriate channels to obtain the resource and thus the value of that resource will be determined accordingly.
not sticking on some automatic program, so that you have a constant tricky of resources.
so unless you can say how pvm breaks the rules or isnt t2a accurate its a pointless argument.
yet i guess we will be dancing around this topic for a while yet...
and i feel people like cletus are continually trying to compare the value of ingots to gold. which are two different commonodies. that change dependant on their circumstance.
this is not an issue of who makes more gold or what is more valuable.
it is about going through the appropriate channels to obtain the resource and thus the value of that resource will be determined accordingly.
not sticking on some automatic program, so that you have a constant tricky of resources.
so unless you can say how pvm breaks the rules or isnt t2a accurate its a pointless argument.
yet i guess we will be dancing around this topic for a while yet...
East Britian Bowyer and Weaponsmith
Guildmaster of BoO
Guildmaster of BoO
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
The two reasons I'm not worried about excessive pvm farmng are: there are only so many hours in a day. I doubt there's anyone who plays more than ten hours daily, and that's pretty extreme. Second, as I said in an earlier post, pls should be keeping pvm farmers in check on a healthy shard.
The thing is, pvm farmers are still exchanging time for gold. Macro farmers are exchanging nothing and getting gold for free.
Lowering the price of resources by excessive farming (remember, no one manually mines 10 hours a day) is more harmful to the economy than excessive gold farming.
Excessive gold farming would cause inflation by raising the price of goods, but metal and wood items availability would still be in parity relative to other goods, meaning their value would remain constant. Everything would still function, as global inflation of this sort would affect all subsystems simarly.
However, the introduction of cheap crafting materials would lower the expected asking price for goods while the value of gold and the rest of the economy in general would remain unchanged. This would leave the rest of the world (pvm farmers, pks, rare collectors) untouched while diminishing the appeal of crafting.
Excessive gold farming affects the economy uniformly because gold is the universal currency. Resource farming disproportionately affects the profitability of crafting while leaving the general economy unchanged.
The thing is, pvm farmers are still exchanging time for gold. Macro farmers are exchanging nothing and getting gold for free.
Lowering the price of resources by excessive farming (remember, no one manually mines 10 hours a day) is more harmful to the economy than excessive gold farming.
Excessive gold farming would cause inflation by raising the price of goods, but metal and wood items availability would still be in parity relative to other goods, meaning their value would remain constant. Everything would still function, as global inflation of this sort would affect all subsystems simarly.
However, the introduction of cheap crafting materials would lower the expected asking price for goods while the value of gold and the rest of the economy in general would remain unchanged. This would leave the rest of the world (pvm farmers, pks, rare collectors) untouched while diminishing the appeal of crafting.
Excessive gold farming affects the economy uniformly because gold is the universal currency. Resource farming disproportionately affects the profitability of crafting while leaving the general economy unchanged.
Re: Crack down on unattended resource gathering.
I don't think anyone is trying to say that UO is ONLY for pvmcletus wrote:Roll eyes and criticism aside you can't possibly expect me to buy the argument that UO IS FOR PVM ONLY. BLACKSMITHS SUPPORT PVM.
To clarify, I simply support increasing loot tables on lower level mobs while lowering them on the higher level mobs. I am not advocating letting people afk resource macro. The truth is that a very very small segment of the population does this and with slightly better policing it would cease to be a real issue. However, claiming that AFK resource macroers destroy the economy and cause all kinds of problems is just misinformed. If you want to slow gold inflation you either have to provide gold sinks or attempt to lower the amount of gold going into the system.
For the comment about buying regs and potions.. they are simply a drop in the bucket compared to the gold taken in. A tamer simply casting gate a few times and using a couple bandages can earn thousands of gold so while yes, the startup costs for pvm are higher than a minerbot in terms of mass gold miners and LJ bots do not compare unless they are on a server with no vendor gold limits and they can smith the items for easy gold.
I don't have a tamer but from what I understand there is quite a bit of time put into it to develop that skill and still even more time to use the skill to farm gold. I don't even see that many of them around. Not to mention the belabored point that PvM farming is part of gameplay while minerbots are an abuse of the ruleset.
I don't disagree with your post but I don't think that PvM farming can be even thought of as excessive unless it's just a personal opinion on how long a person spends playing online games. 5 hours a week or 40 hours a week should make no difference as to how they spend there time in game if exploits and abuses are avoided.Brett wrote: ...excessive pvm farmng...