Regarding Population of this game.

[Duke Jones]

Hello. I'm a newcomer here. This is my first post. Please accept my appologies if this post is a result of ignorance of this specific server.

I think the conflict here is that we have an era-accurate game system, but we don't have an era-accurate population.

It would be nice if we could travel back in time and go back when t2a was new and people were trying to do new things and not power-game.

I feel that there is a disproportionate amount of power-gamers and griefers to casual and good-natured gamers out there. I have no problem with pvp, but there is a major difference between murdering for gold and really nice loot you want to take from a player, and murdering characters who obviously have nothing of value just to degrade their gameplay experience. What are new characters supposed to do when there are no safe hunting areas? I already know for a fact that PK griefers actively run through the common new-players hunting areas. Should they just be happy with the gained .6 points of certain skills per game session when they ultimately have to leave the safety of the town guards? I know that every time you leave the guarded zone, you should treat all unbanked items as a gamble wager. But what do you do when it simply is not fun anymore and when risk does not equal reward?

Handling an MMO population is a extraordinary exercise in sociology and management and i feel all who are in charge of secondage have my respect. They are in essence managing a population around a set game, rather than managing a game around a set population. This is something that is the reverse of the MMO "norm."

How do you deal with an overpopulation of griefers?
How do you deal with an overpopulation of Power-gamers?
How do prevent the degredation of the community into elitist players?
How do you attract new players without "dumbing down" the system?
How do you promote socialization?

The sad thing about this comment is that it may fall upon many deaf ears (ex. "of course there's alot of power-gamers! If you aren't streamlining everything to a macro or following a set proccess of 'how to make the most gold and loot fastest' you're a failure and there's no reason to even play. If you're not turning it into a job, you're not having fun!")

[Naljier]

sry we arnt putting in a trammel

[archaicsubrosa77]

But it is the enemy that suffers in the end as they degrade back into the halfway house of newbdom in death dear Bilbo, and what excites one more then to persue the enemy whom has made himself detested as his sacrifice to your fun in his slaying taking you to the peak of your anger to crash down upon him when you are ever ready to do so.
Love your enemy, for he fullfills the temptation of the darkest parts of your heart...lest you tell me there is no virtue in vengeance, and in battle you have not at least once found glory.

[Batlin]

What are new characters supposed to do when there are no safe hunting areas?

I suggest they go out there in explore the world (forests etc.) a bit. If they cannot find a safe hunting spot on this server they must be doing something wrong.

[Dagon]

Well I agree that the population is not accurate, whereas on OSI out of 2000 people online maybe 3% of them would be PKs, and here it's more like 85% at any time. Not to mention that the number of blue pks are not accurate, since basically, at least in my experience on OSI, PKs were red. Blues were not pks. Notoriety and titles actually meant something, whereas here if you get flagged grey for any reason any random ass blue will come and attack you, just because they can. It's pretty lame.

But you aren't really going to get any conversation here on the topic, because the trolls will just come in and say "PK = PLAYER KILLER" not "NOT A NEWBIE KILLER", and other such nonsense. One such troll on IRC said it's a goal-less game and theres nothing else to do but PK (get a life/job/girlfriend/something then?). And it's high times to brag about killing newbs with no stats/skills ("NEWB DOWN!").

As for your questions, basically the answer to them all is along the lines of "you can't"/"you don't". It is the way it is and that's all.

[Duke Jones]

I didn't mean to open hostility.

Thanks for the replies.

I think what I really wanted to ask was "How do you get a t2a era accurate community to compliment the t2a era system?"

Everything else was a rant I guess. Sorry.

[Xukluk Tuguznal]

I frown upon the killing of newbs let me say that and get it out the way.


But, I've seen the argument time and time again that the ratio of pk to blues isn't accurate... How can a playstyle ever be accurate? Part of the game is what people choose to do and in that aspect alone it is and will always be accurate as a constant.

[Faust]

Dagon,

If you went gray in any populated area during '99 on OSI servers it was only a matter of seconds before you were attacked or ganked. The only reason blue pk's exist here at the moment is due to the fact that there isn't any perma red penalty like there was during the time period this server replicates. There were plenty of blue pk's back in the old days before perma red was introduced. That was the whole reason for its inception in the first place.

Lastly, this server does not aim to replicate any personal experiences here. This simply is not possible and would be no different than asking Derrick to make you a time machine instead.

The goal is simply to replicate the game mechanics of the t2a era.

[Hemperor]

I frown upon the killing of newbs let me say that and get it out the way.


But, I've seen the argument time and time again that the ratio of pk to blues isn't accurate... How can a playstyle ever be accurate? Part of the game is what people choose to do and in that aspect alone it is and will always be accurate as a constant.

Allowing people multiple accounts etc. does affect this. People also think of t2a and go "house looting, dry looting, and making newbies quit!" which certainly wasn't the case at all... Gurantee there are 5x as many blues to reds as there is here, people just weren't major dicks back then...People think T2A and think it's their right of way to be an asshole.

[Derrick]

I didn't mean to open hostility.

Thanks for the replies.

I think what I really wanted to ask was "How do you get a t2a era accurate community to compliment the t2a era system?"

Everything else was a rant I guess. Sorry.

It's not easy. The goal though is the emulate the T2A era mechanics and let the chips fall where they may. We do not want to try to socially engineer the playerbase.

It's virtually impossible to recreate the specific level of diversity that existed in 1999, however for our time and place the diversity of players that we do have here humbles me.

[Duke Jones]

I frown upon the killing of newbs let me say that and get it out the way.


But, I've seen the argument time and time again that the ratio of pk to blues isn't accurate... How can a playstyle ever be accurate? Part of the game is what people choose to do and in that aspect alone it is and will always be accurate as a constant.

I believe we are talking about historically speaking. The community "back then" as opposed to the the community "now."

I'm afraid we are just chasing nostalgia ranting about the "good ol' days." Maybe its true what they say: "you can never go back home."

[Faust]

Ninety plus percent of the Pre:UOR player base scene now days were the prey and bad players during this era. Majority of them were not the top PK/PVPer's in the game then. This creates a mental complex where these people can now play this role. The mentality has changed since the UOR publish where mainly the "HALO" generation played the game. No respect for anything in pvp and pk'ing. The main goal of these people are to grief as much victims as possible trying to torture people worse than the way they were treated. That is the clear reality and truth of the UOR mentality as I like to call it.

[Ronk]

Ninety plus percent of the Pre:UOR player base scene now days were the prey and bad players during this era. Majority of them were not the top PK/PVPer's in the game then. This creates a mental complex where these people can now play this role. The mentality has changed since the UOR publish where mainly the "HALO" generation played the game. No respect for anything in pvp and pk'ing. The main goal of these people are to grief as much victims as possible trying to torture people worse than the way they were treated. That is the clear reality and truth of the UOR mentality as I like to call it.

I'd like to see some patch notes to back that up

But yeah, I agree you can never truly go back. Every little stat and combo is studied to a point where just about everyone has the 'same template' and does the same thing. Case in point, the hally mages when watching a 1v1 duel.

[Caswallon]

I frown upon the killing of newbs let me say that and get it out the way.


But, I've seen the argument time and time again that the ratio of pk to blues isn't accurate... How can a playstyle ever be accurate? Part of the game is what people choose to do and in that aspect alone it is and will always be accurate as a constant.

Allowing people multiple accounts etc. does affect this. People also think of t2a and go "house looting, dry looting, and making newbies quit!" which certainly wasn't the case at all... Gurantee there are 5x as many blues to reds as there is here, people just weren't major dicks back then...People think T2A and think it's their right of way to be an asshole.

Spot on Hemp. Nail. Head.

As far at the OP's thoughts on 'safe' hunting grounds for newbs, its really not that hard. Dont use Britain GY, use J'helom. Dont spend an hour at one spawn and expect to not get ganked, go in, stay as long as you feel you can then hit the road, every minute you stay in one place is a minute closer to a grey screen. Stay mobile, stay alert, dont get greedy or slack, always have an escape route, dont carry to much stuff.

PK's have always targeted the young, powerless or ignorant, its part of the mindset, they want the easiest kill possible, not a challenge, otherwise they would be O/Cing no?

[Hawkins]

The ratio here is actually great in comparison to what I'm used to. I credit the diversity of activities here and the large population.

UO is always going to have lots of griefers because it's one of the only games that continues to allow them to exist. Without the ability to torment people, they can't have any fun, and most game designers are coding griefing out of their games. Get back at them when you can, and ignore them when you can't. It's all you can do.

Oh, and GM Hiding is your best friend in the whole wide world. Learn it. Use it.