Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy

[Duke Jones]

I'm saying the features that Razor offers are accurate, and that's what this shard is about.

Sure, *I* personally, would like to be ban razor altogether. But if there was an ability to limit razor, I think that would be a reasonable starting point for compromise. And I really don't think we should incorporate third-party programs, as part of era accuracy. It should be all about the game itself.

No more light filter options
No more smart last targeting
No more extensive targeting systems
No more crazy extensive scripting for full automated gameplay
No more looping of macro
No more unattended resource gathering

[Tron]

I am pro razor. Screw adding more tedium by relying only on the sh*tty client features of UO.

Even EA knew their client was shit and didn't function as well as it should. UOA was allowed and was basically a necessity.

Now we have razor. Same thing? I don't know anyone using razor to perform complex pvp macros, it doesn't work that way. It does help me cut aids and macro magery.

[Hemperor]

Mirage, afk resource gathering would have got your ass banned on OSI, along with AFK anything. Stop bringing up my age when you present such a poor argument, it reflects very poorly on yourself.

Tron, no one is saying "don't let them loop bandaid or magery macros". Everyone posting against this has either not read the topic or is simply saying "let it be inaccurate".

[Duke Jones]

I am pro razor. Screw adding more tedium by relying only on the sh*tty client features of UO.

Even EA knew their client was shit and didn't function as well as it should. UOA was allowed and was basically a necessity.

Now we have razor. Same thing? I don't know anyone using razor to perform complex pvp macros, it doesn't work that way. It does help me cut aids and macro magery.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, or if it's intended to be a satirically funny view on abusers of the game (damn brilliant if it is, I applaud you on your wit, there, if so.)

You're pretty much giving strong evidence that you (and other abusers) could care less about the intent to make this as close to an authentic T2A experience, (which is the ultimate goal of the shard, by the way) and just want things your own way without the consideration of the gameplay of the rest of the community that desires and appreciates T2A gameplay.

[Tron]

Tron, no one is saying "don't let them loop bandaid or magery macros". Everyone posting against this has either not read the topic or is simply saying "let it be inaccurate".

I'll say "let it be inaccurate" even tho I don't consider it to be 100% inaccurate because UOA was just razor unevolved.

I afk macroed on OSI during t2a, sure some people got temp bans for it, but I never did. I never afk resource gathered, and I think that should always be policed. I don't know how bad it is here honestly. If Derrick can't do it, he should take a few volunteers from the community to enforce it. A few player/gms that only police afk macroing.

Other than afk resourcing, I don't mind razor.

[Tron]

also, Duke Jones. I don't read your posts, no reason to directly address me.

[Kraarug]

I am pro razor. Screw adding more tedium by relying only on the sh*tty client features of UO.

Even EA knew their client was shit and didn't function as well as it should. UOA was allowed and was basically a necessity.

Now we have razor. Same thing? I don't know anyone using razor to perform complex pvp macros, it doesn't work that way. It does help me cut aids and macro magery.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, or if it's intended to be a satirically funny view on abusers of the game (damn brilliant if it is, I applaud you on your wit, there, if so.)

You're pretty much giving strong evidence that you (and other abusers) could care less about the intent to make this as close to an authentic T2A experience, (which is the ultimate goal of the shard, by the way) and just want things your own way without the consideration of the gameplay of the rest of the community that desires and appreciates T2A gameplay.

Duke,

Would you please spell out your case as to what exact features of Razor are not accurate to era given OSI's approval of UOA?

That would be a big help and would clearly demonstrate were your footing.

[Hemperor]

Kraarug, a list has been shown multiple times displaying the features that were not possible during the era.

Also, I think it wasn't until UO:R that OSI embraced UOA.

[Kraarug]

Kraarug, a list has been shown multiple times displaying the features that were not possible during the era.

Also, I think it wasn't until UO:R that OSI embraced UOA.

Please paste that list because if it's the same arguments I have heard before I am more than ready to dress it down.

Also, OSI gave "UO PRO" approval to UOA 6.17.99.

[Hemperor]

Few quick facts.

You can't ban Razor, which is why the negotiator script is usually the best idea. Since you can't ban it, you can make it so you can only connect with Razor but the features will be limited. Here's a direct copy and paste from the script of what can be done:

FilterWeather = 1 << 0, // Weather Filter
FilterLight = 1 << 1, // Light Filter
SmartTarget = 1 << 2, // Smart Last Target
RangedTarget = 1 << 3, // Range Check Last Target
AutoOpenDoors = 1 << 4, // Automatically Open Doors
DequipOnCast = 1 << 5, // Unequip Weapon on spell cast
AutoPotionEquip = 1 << 6, // Un/Re-equip weapon on potion use
PoisonedChecks = 1 << 7, // Block heal If poisoned/Macro IIf Poisoned condition/Heal or Cure self
LoopedMacros = 1 << 8, // Disallow Looping macros, For loops, and macros that call other macros
UseOnceAgent = 1 << 9, // The use once agent
RestockAgent = 1 << 10,// The restock agent
SellAgent = 1 << 11,// The sell agent
BuyAgent = 1 << 12,// The buy agent
PotionHotkeys = 1 << 13,// All potion hotkeys
RandomTargets = 1 << 14,// All random target hotkeys (Not target next, last target, target self)
ClosestTargets = 1 << 15,// All closest target hotkeys
OverheadHealth = 1 << 16,// Health and Mana/Stam messages shown over player's heads

http://www.runuo.com/forums/custom-scri ... ation.html

If this script is enabled, contrary to what others are saying here, there is absolutely no way to connect unless you are using Razor and have "Negotiate features with server" checked in the options. Personally, I have played with this script and although it may seem like an "inconvenience" when we are all used to the auto UO of today, it really helps recreate the oldschool feel and balance.

The only things that would be "disabled" would be features deemed not possible in the era through the 3rd party programs of the day. What I have put in blue is an "approximate" proposal list of what could be done.

Disabling the loop feature in Razor can actually do a lot of good. Players can still macro using UOLoop, which essentially loops a designated hotkey within UO, however Razor will not be able to use for loops and a macro will not be able to call another macro... This eliminates resource gathering macros, crazy crafting macros such as full spell books and other things not possible within the era.

Hopefully the Canadian with bad teeth hasn't put too much of a bad spin on this

EDIT: Also, if you are against implementing this, why? Shouldn't it be considered and dealt with just like any other accuracy issue?

That's my "personal" list, but that is really all that would be able to be disabled...accuracy wise.

[Tron]

Few quick facts.

You can't ban Razor, which is why the negotiator script is usually the best idea. Since you can't ban it, you can make it so you can only connect with Razor but the features will be limited. Here's a direct copy and paste from the script of what can be done:

FilterWeather = 1 << 0, // Weather Filter
FilterLight = 1 << 1, // Light Filter
SmartTarget = 1 << 2, // Smart Last Target
RangedTarget = 1 << 3, // Range Check Last Target
AutoOpenDoors = 1 << 4, // Automatically Open Doors
DequipOnCast = 1 << 5, // Unequip Weapon on spell cast
AutoPotionEquip = 1 << 6, // Un/Re-equip weapon on potion use
PoisonedChecks = 1 << 7, // Block heal If poisoned/Macro IIf Poisoned condition/Heal or Cure self
LoopedMacros = 1 << 8, // Disallow Looping macros, For loops, and macros that call other macros
UseOnceAgent = 1 << 9, // The use once agent
RestockAgent = 1 << 10,// The restock agent
SellAgent = 1 << 11,// The sell agent
BuyAgent = 1 << 12,// The buy agent
PotionHotkeys = 1 << 13,// All potion hotkeys
RandomTargets = 1 << 14,// All random target hotkeys (Not target next, last target, target self)
ClosestTargets = 1 << 15,// All closest target hotkeys
OverheadHealth = 1 << 16,// Health and Mana/Stam messages shown over player's heads

http://www.runuo.com/forums/custom-scri ... ation.html

If this script is enabled, contrary to what others are saying here, there is absolutely no way to connect unless you are using Razor and have "Negotiate features with server" checked in the options. Personally, I have played with this script and although it may seem like an "inconvenience" when we are all used to the auto UO of today, it really helps recreate the oldschool feel and balance.

The only things that would be "disabled" would be features deemed not possible in the era through the 3rd party programs of the day. What I have put in blue is an "approximate" proposal list of what could be done.

Disabling the loop feature in Razor can actually do a lot of good. Players can still macro using UOLoop, which essentially loops a designated hotkey within UO, however Razor will not be able to use for loops and a macro will not be able to call another macro... This eliminates resource gathering macros, crazy crafting macros such as full spell books and other things not possible within the era.

Hopefully the Canadian with bad teeth hasn't put too much of a bad spin on this

EDIT: Also, if you are against implementing this, why? Shouldn't it be considered and dealt with just like any other accuracy issue?

That's my "personal" list, but that is really all that would be able to be disabled...accuracy wise.

That's not a bad list.

I don't like removing looped macros.

Skilling unattending should not be removed unless they put in 3x skill gain in dungeons or something.

I don't like removal of target macros. They should have been in the original client anyways.

I don't like removal of pot macros, those were in UOA, and they should be.

And why remove restock agents? I think that would just add more tedium and slow everything down.

Divinity had a modified razor, it worked for them, it's the reason I still hit "L" when opening doors and keep my auto doors unchecked.

[r0b]

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

[Hemperor]

I should have been more clear, the list is what is completely possible to disable using the script, what is highlighted in blue is what could be disabled according to accuracy.

[Tron]

I should have been more clear, the list is what is completely possible to disable using the script, what is highlighted in blue is what could be disabled according to accuracy.

OH OK. NOW YOU ARE CLEAR.

seriously tho. divinity had options off and I don't remember doing anything special to my razor to play there. we could easily turn off a few features (like auto light/open doors) that everyone would agree should be off? and requiring razor to log in is fine eh? i bet the number of people who don't use it is less than 1%. they'll just have to adjust.

[Hemperor]

I should have been more clear, the list is what is completely possible to disable using the script, what is highlighted in blue is what could be disabled according to accuracy.

OH OK. NOW YOU ARE CLEAR.

seriously tho. divinity had options off and I don't remember doing anything special to my razor to play there. we could easily turn off a few features (like auto light/open doors) that everyone would agree should be off? and requiring razor to log in is fine eh? i bet the number of people who don't use it is less than 1%. they'll just have to adjust.

See what I mean... once the topic has been read and the proposed changes are clear, I think majority of the people reach the same conclusion...