Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy

[Faust]

Still got my vote.

Add it.

[Derrick]

Again, the issue with limit Razor make us have to require Razor.

When razor was broken by a Razor update a couple weeks ago, some players on UOSA were forced to seek different methods of connecting to the shard.

If we had out own licensed version or Razor for UOSA, or if Razor did not auto-update this would be less of an issue. But as it stands I don't feel it's a good idea to tie ourselves to another product which can change at any moment.

Razor is great software, it's an incredible feature, and plenty of kudos to Zippy for his work on it. But I'm uncomfortable tying us to it.

[Hemperor]

I think your worries are mostly unfounded, many many shards use this script.

It can easily be removed as well?

[Zane]

I think your worries are mostly unfounded, many many shards use this script.

It can easily be removed as well?

I'm not sure what the other programs that allow you to log on are, but I'm thinking that he's saying just limiting Razor abilities does not restrict those. In order to restrict the features you are discussing, he would have to require the use of razor.

That, or in order to prevent people from overriding Razor restrictions he would have to require the use of Razor.

Just what I get from reading it.

[Stuck]

I think Derrick was saying that if he limits Razor use, the server requires everyone to logon with not only the "Negotiate features with server" option enabled, but also Razor itself in order to check for this option. So people who don't want to use Razor at all will be forced to use it or they'll be booted from the server for not having the "Negotiate" option enabled.

That was my understanding at least.

[Duke Jones]

Well if that's true, there should be no problem. Derrick's reminder on login is that "Razor is the only accepted 'helper' program... etc."

[Hemperor]

I think Derrick was saying that if he limits Razor use, the server requires everyone to logon with not only the "Negotiate features with server" option enabled, but also Razor itself in order to check for this option. So people who don't want to use Razor at all will be forced to use it or they'll be booted from the server for not having the "Negotiate" option enabled.

That was my understanding at least.

That is correct. At any given time I'm sure the amount of people logged in not through Razor is < 1%, if any at all.

[HardCore]

Looks like you got your official answer. Time to move on.

[Hemperor]

10 x 10 = 50

[sirrayiv]

I am strongly against any change to razor. I don't even really want to debate it, it would change far to much for the bad, then what it will solve in the pvp world, farming world ect. People already complain about cutting bandages, its like the worst thing ever for some players starting. You would be doing that to everyone. The time constraints on starting up would become to deep.

People who Macro Unattended all the time would not like to see changes to razor....we get it...however, I would love to see all of the automated macroing go away completly from UO. I am tired of seeing 4 or 5 people inside a stable everyday macroing away "Guards" as they provoke animals....You people know who you are, you make me sick, and I would love to Donkey Punch all of you!!!

[sirrayiv]

Off the top of my head, the only changes you could make that can be deemed "accurate" (in accordance with what was possible through 3rd party programs in the era) and would affect pvp are all the special target hotkeys and hits/mana/stam percentages.

Disabling the loop feature in Razor can actually do a lot of good. Players can still macro using UOLoop, which essentially loops a designated hotkey within UO, however Razor will not be able to use for loops and a macro will not be able to call another macro... This eliminates resource gathering macros, crazy crafting macros such as full spell books and other things not possible within the era.

I agree with you 100% on this one.....removing the loop feature would throw a monkey wrench in alot of the unattended macroing that is going on, and I am all for it.

[sirrayiv]

I honestly believe the in-game macro system originally built by the devs was purposely built with it's limitations, to AVOID the problems that we currently have with advanced scripts, macro vs. macro combat, inflated economy, unattended resource gathering, etc.

We're scripting ourselves into Glorified, interactive, NPCs.

The answer is finding a more simplified connection agent.

Not sure that I have ever read one of your posts that I have disagreed with....it sure is nice to see some players on this server who can see the big picture. After watching the commercial version of UO fall apart because of UOAssist, EasyUO, etc...I am all for restricting Razor!!!

[Duke Jones]

(I stated this in another post, but i feel it's suited for this topic, as well.)

My point is that we must be careful when we say "You have the freedom to not use macros, we should have the freedom to use them."

Gamers have a natural and understandable habit of making elitist standards. Consider the following slippery-slope:

-You have a macro that would change "normal" (no third-party macros) success rate of something from, lets say 70%.
-Then, you remove the human error/speed and turn it to 90-95% success rate.
-That improved success rate will become the new standard.
-This in turn forces anyone who wishes to not get left behind to use this new third-party standard.
-Then it gets to the point where it's not only the standard, its become expected, and anyone not using this will be (inversely, due to the game being dependent on the player community) at a greater failure rate than without the third party program macros.
-So, in essence, the only freedom non-macroers are given, is the freedom to fail against standardized automated game play which has little/no human interaction.

Iv'e said it before, and I'll say it again. "The UO devs implemented the in-game macro system knowing that it was limited, and they limited it on purpose."

[sirrayiv]

...and yet 90% of the players on this server are macroing unattended somewhere right now!

Implement a timed murder gump, and players will be able to police themselves without GM's having to monitor all of the players activities.

Back in the day macroing unattended was a bannable offense....making the murder gump disappear after 10 minutes allows players to take a chance on killing people who are macroing without receiving a murder count. (if the player doesn't report them within the given time alloted)

This is the perfect solution to allowing players to police themselves, because anyone who wanted to macro AFK would be forced into doing it somewhere safe, which no longer would be in the middle of town!

[Faust]

Create a newbie character and hand him greater explosion pots or some nightshade.

Problem solved.