Halby hits every 2 seconds with 25 dex?

[Jaster]

I find it funny how you leave out the rest. How about we feel in some holes?

Who says these spells wasn't fast casted? I did plenty of refreshes with fast casting. The source suggests that the delay is 2 seconds and that's the ONLY source to go by. It works out just fine with the way it's setup to re-create the function.

Who is to say that they were fast casted? Is that to say a hally only refreshed on a fast casted spell?.... were those ebolts fast casted in that picture? all 3 of them? ... exp eb eb eb ...thats pretty impossible to fast cast that many spells in a row ... exp eb hally eb hally eb ...

Just because it is the only thing that was found about disarming weapons, it doesn't say the swing timers were 2 seconds when disarmed ... hell, we use that same damn quote for re-equipping different weapons ... 2 second delay .... 2 second delay on archery weapons ... 2 second delay for disarming a hally then rearming it even after the timer has been reset ... 2 second delay

The comment referring to standing toe to toe is completely pointless...

Your swing timer doesn't advance while moving, so the time spent moving from your opponent after refreshing bares nothing to the timer.

Considering connection lag tends to elapse time when you are moving because you are stuck in position for small amounts of time .... who is to say that the person actually equipped the weapon and ran at them ...

[Faust]

You don't lag on a constant basis... With a standard 56k connection sitting at an average of 200 ping means a lag of 0.2 seconds while moving. This isn't enough time to declare a "non-movement" eventsink to deactivate a timer. Thy only way movement would bare any time at all in this situation is if you lagged really really really bad to make you literally stop to elapse some of tha time.

[RoadKill]

How about we pretend that SS has no value to the conversation, because honestly, it doesn't.

There is no way to tell how many seconds went by between lines in a UO journal. WTFMAN is not a valid source, and Faust seems to be fronting the same information over and over again and side-steps questions by saying 'refer to my other post........ long paragraph"

Instead of writing a semi-insulting paragraph, why not just explain word for word, in words everyone can understand, what the deal is with the 2 second hally timers.

I understand you like busting out the big essays but people get lost to easily and you end up with 3 pages of this back and forth trash.

/rant.

[Faust]

I don't understand why some people are failing to grasp the screen shot... If this was the ONLY souce it would be a tad bit understand but it isn't.

How hard can it be really be to understand the timing in the screen shot? Try to follow slow people...

There is no recast in between Sysics explosion and Nighthawks ebolt from the 4th line... This means that this happened with in 30 seconds due to the timer elapse. Nighthawk clearly says he didn't heal once during the duel, which means Sysic didn't deal out any damage making it a VERY quick duel. Sysic casts THREE spells in between Nighthawks three energy bolts and two hally hits. The journal shows that ALL three are lined up together meaning the first two were interrupted unless the guy was purposely casting them on the ground. After all everyone plays around in a duel scenario like this, right? If you can't do the math with all of this you really shouldn't be making a comment about the screenshot in general. A hally swings every 5 seconds. Sysic didn't begin casting greater heal until after Nighthawk casts his 2nd ebolt, which was after the first hally hit. This means the damage delay on the ebolt would have had to cause an interrupt in this case. Nighthawk finishes up with the last hally hit and ebolts to finish the duel... There were no other spells casted in between that time that CLEARLY shows the timeframe for this duel. If you're suggesting the guy sat there waiting for a 5 second hally to hit him instead of casting a greater heal that takes 1.25s you're simply out of your mind.

The other sources for this delay are clear...

Things to Remember:
Use the instant-hit with your weapon whenever possible (instant-hit= where you arm your weapon right after you cast a spell on your opponent---with pre-casting gone remember to target first!!!---then run up to your opponent with weapon in hand. This is a bug that lets you get a free hit off, with no delay. So use it while you still can.). Second, Try to preserve your mana as much as possible (more on this later). Finally, with pre-casting gone, almost all of the tactics revolve around the use of the greater heal spell, so let's hope OSI decides not to f*ck with it

Very clear reference written in early '00 that states casting a spell would refresh your swing.

- February 3rd, 2000 - UOHOC Discussion -
Glamdring - *Aegean_LS* Is anything planned for the insta-hally hit? Is it supposed to skipp the delay?
Sage - Yes. We are currently looking at the insta-hally hit, and considering its removal.

Portion from UOHOC that CLEARLy shows that you could skip your hally delay as mentioned.

Disarming Weapons: gives a 2 second delay. Ok, wonderful but this goes hand in hand with the hit being calculated at the beginning of each swing to cause further inbalances.

The implemention of the disarm delay stating it was 2 seconds to fix a major exploit that made weapons swing VERY fast.

Mini-update with small fixes Feb 26 1999 11:25AM
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.

The patch itself...

10)
The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon. Please note one important omission!! There will be no current changes to Architect NPCs concerning better methods of buying back house deeds. Expect this to be added in the next major update though which is tentatively scheduled for around March 9th.

The explanation of the patch from Markee's Dragon... This exploit allowed a purpose to cycle a weapon using a faster weapon like a katana and swing every 1.25s with a hally machine gunning the hally like crazy.

The disarm delay is in the default code RunUO code. This delay is described to be 2 seconds long in the stratics article. If this isn't clear enough for someone than I don't know what it is.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

Heh, I will just say again that I think the halberd timers are way too fast, and that the screen shot proves nothing at all in my mind. I will go so far as to say it is utterly devoid of any significance. I also agree with Loops that stratics is a very questionable source, because of the inconsistencies and such.

What is the hally timer in the demo? This should be pretty easy to figure out, and getting 45 str to use the halberd shouldn't be too cumbersome.

Fausts answer.

fter doing all this research it completely clicked like a light was just turned on in my mind. I remember when this bug was fixed. What you could do is swing with a very slow weapon and arm a very fast weapon to convert your delay to that of a slower weapon. The reason this works is because of the same mechanic that is apparent in the UO Demo. When you equip a weapon with an active swing delay your swing delay would convert to the weapon delay of the weapon that you just equipped. For example, if you hit with a halberd that made your delay 4.5s you could equip a katana converting your delay to a little over 1 second. If you equipped the halberd after waiting out the katana delay you would have a hally swing ready to go. All you had to do was hally, katana, hally katana, and repeat this entire process using the katana as a buffer to speed up the process by converting the delay. A dexer abusing this bug would obviously be devestating one can imagine.

What OSI did to fix this solution was to add a 2 second delay described above when you unequip a weapon. If you did the same process with the halberd and katana your delay would always be two seconds after unequipping the weapon to prevent converting the swing delay to something so awfully low. If you would try to equip a hally after unequipping before waiting out the two second delay it would simply reset your swing delay upon equipping.

I told Fruit Loops that I am all ears for another "logical explanation".

Agreed the 2 second timer has the most evidence and so it is the best possible choice, no matter how "spurious" the evidence is, you find evidence for something otherwise and it might be changed, it is not relevant how many people disagree with it.

who wants to go make a journal screenshot with me and get the hally timer switched to 0.5? that would be uber fun

pm me in irc thx

Faust didn't just make up the screen shot it was on WTFMAN why would they forge a screen shot?

Who is to say that they were fast casted? Is that to say a hally only refreshed on a fast casted spell?.... were those ebolts fast casted in that picture? all 3 of them? ... exp eb eb eb ...thats pretty impossible to fast cast that many spells in a row ... exp eb hally eb hally eb ...

What are you trying to argue that the timer is actually 2.5 seconds or something, that would be impossible to prove and illogical to implement because stratics says it is 2 seconds.

Considering connection lag tends to elapse time when you are moving because you are stuck in position for small amounts of time .... who is to say that the person actually equipped the weapon and ran at them ...

Come on connection? That might add what like .25 seconds once again this falls in the same category of argument as the above quote.

Anyways what I see is evidence for a 2.0 second disarm delay even if it is somewhat spurious, and no evidence for anything else.

[Ezp]

What I don't get? All these skeptics are complaing about Faust's evidence but aren't doing any research themselves to disprove it. Things don't work out that way you know LOL. It's fine to say it's not accurate but back it up with evidence before you make such a claim.

[Jiggo]

I think what you are all missing in faust's explanation is that the 2 second disarm delay is actually PREVENTING swings from being even FASTER. Prior to the patch fixing the exploit, your swing advanced until you got an "ok to swing", which was not expended until you swung. If you were unarmed, and stationary long enough, your swing timer would advance. Upon completion of the swing timer advancing to a ready swing, you would punch your target. Now, if you armed a halberd before punching your target, you would instantly swing your halberd when you initiated an attack. NOW, the exploit was this: You could also ready your swing with a katana, or quarter staff, or any other weapon for that matter. You could ready your swing with a katana, which advanced even faster then wrestling. This would lead to being able to chop someone with a katana until they were low, then instantly kill shot them with a hally swung at katana speed.

Thus, OSI added a delay on disarming. This way, when you disarm a weapon, any weapon, you are thrown into a 2 second disarm delay to prevent you from cycling your swing with a katana, or other ungodly fast weapon.

This is the bug that is referenced in the patch note.

Hallies did swing at a almost a 5 second delay, if you kept it armed.

[Faust]

Here is a much more horrifying outcome with that previous bug. The equip delay that is always left out of almost every t2a shard with the implementation of insta hit causes this exploit. The way the equip delay works is very simple. When you equip a weapon your swing delay converts to that specific weapon that you just equipped. If you can swing a katana every 1.25s that would be your delay when equipping. Now imagine being able to hit with a hally, equip to a katana converting your delay to 1.25s, tab out, wait that small delay, and equip your hally allowing you to be ready for a swing once more. This means that you can swing a hally every 1.25s if you really wanted too. That was the major problem with this exploit when insta hit was implemented in February, and OSI immediately getting it fixed in that same month. This was the introduction of the disarm delay that used an average swing delay of 2 seconds everytime you unequipped a weapon to prevent this exploit.

[RoadKill]

Here is a much more horrifying outcome with that previous bug. The equip delay that is always left out of almost every t2a shard with the implementation of insta hit causes this exploit. The way the equip delay works is very simple. When you equip a weapon your swing delay converts to that specific weapon that you just equipped. If you can swing a katana every 1.25s that would be your delay when equipping. Now imagine being able to hit with a hally, equip to a katana converting your delay to 1.25s, tab out, wait that small delay, and equip your hally allowing you to be ready for a swing once more. This means that you can swing a hally every 1.25s if you really wanted too. That was the major problem with this exploit when insta hit was implemented in February, and OSI immediately getting it fixed in that same month. This was the introduction of the disarm delay that used an average swing delay of 2 seconds everytime you unequipped a weapon to prevent this exploit.

What Faust is referring to is what we use to call "Double Hitting" - I remember a lot of hally mages thinking their template were badass and when this exploit was fixed, I remember a whole lot of whining by the same crowd. Glad we don't have that here

[BlackFoot]

i think by far the most important thing that thsi thread proves is that night sight shoudl be necessary
gimp razor asap i have yet in my entire career of uosa to see a nightsight pot

[RoadKill]

i think by far the most important thing that thsi thread proves is that night sight shoudl be necessary
gimp razor asap i have yet in my entire career of uosa to see a nightsight pot

I have a nightsight potion locked down next to my bed!!

[Vlastslav]

Think the bottom line here is that everyone knows 2 seconds is way to fast, and combined with the spam tabbing attack last, pvp here is in fact quite UNaccurate. Facts vs feel is a big thing, and the feel is all wrong.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

In the battle of Facts V Feel, Facts win out every time. Anyone can make up any sort of feeling on a whim and it is very possible for a hand full of players to all believe and feel something totally wrong.

Will you describe the feeling for us and shall we have Derrick code it based on that, that would be ridiculous.

Bring facts and they will be used as evidence to support a change that is the bottom line.

[Senses]

Allow me to go off course a little bit, at least in terms of the initial topic, if for no other reason than I find the complex question of fact vs feel extremely thought provoking. I mean, on one hand, in a black and white world, fact can be well, awe inspiring. Fact is essenentially the word of God to the analytical mind, and when the fact is truth, God's word it is.

But the thoughtful mind might realize that fact does not equal truth, it is simply one perceptor's perception of an infinite or finite amount of variables. You see, what you see you might actually believe, and yet just seeing it changes it in some small way. This is our Universe. Every single thing that has ever happened to you in your entire life has shaped the very way you put together the variables in front of you. One woman see's a picture of a nice man holding an umbrella while it rains, while another sees a rapist watching through a window.

So what is truth? Well science tells us that the more observations about any one set of variables we take into account, the closer to truth we get. My facts, plus your facts, plus untold other participant's facts lead us ever closer to the holy grail of real fact, or truth. 2 heads are better than one, so to speak, and infinite heads are best.

So at best, when I look at a picture, or a poem, or a moment in time, the fact of the matter is all I really have to offer past that point is intuition, or feel. My feelings are stomping through the memory like so many policeman's footprints all over a crime scene. All any one single person in the Universe has to offer as fact is simply feeling and I suppose that is why it is only in death, when all conciousnesses are merged that we might ever hope for truth.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

Allow me to go off course a little bit, at least in terms of the initial topic, if for no other reason than I find the complex question of fact vs feel extremely thought provoking. I mean, on one hand, in a black and white world, fact can be well, awe inspiring. Fact is essenentially the word of God to the analytical mind, and when the fact is truth, God's word it is.

But the thoughtful mind might realize that fact does not equal truth, it is simply one perceptor's perception of an infinite or finite amount of variables. You see, what you see you might actually believe, and yet just seeing it changes it in some small way. This is our Universe. Every single thing that has ever happened to you in your entire life has shaped the very way you put together the variables in front of you. One woman see's a picture of a nice man holding an umbrella while it rains, while another sees a rapist watching through a window.

So what is truth? Well science tells us that the more observations about any one set of variables we take into account, the closer to truth we get. My facts, plus your facts, plus untold other participant's facts lead us ever closer to the holy grail of real fact, or truth. 2 heads are better than one, so to speak, and infinite heads are best.

So at best, when I look at a picture, or a poem, or a moment in time, the fact of the matter is all I really have to offer past that point is intuition, or feel. My feelings are stomping through the memory like so many policeman's footprints all over a crime scene. All any one single person in the Universe has to offer as fact is simply feeling and I suppose that is why it is only in death, when all conciousnesses are merged that we might ever hope for truth.

This isn't retarded philosophy hour with Senses.


Why don't you go watch "The Secret" or whatever you people do.

A fact is a pragmatic truth, a statement that can, at least in theory, be checked and either confirmed or denied. Facts are often contrasted with opinions and beliefs, statements which are held to be true, but are not amenable to pragmatic confirmation or denial.

Ok hopefully that will keep everyone from being hypnotized by Senses' freaky mind games.