Taming "all" command:

[Faust]

This topic got started in the Bola thread here. I have decided to separate this and make its own thread since new information is coming out left and right flooding or derailing the topic with another, etc... here is the new thread with the information from the bola thread too.

OHSNO i was off by 4 months on something i remembered from 12 years ago =)

Thanks Faust for clearing that up.

Now please find me that all kill change stealth-nerf patch note. there has to be complaints about it on whatever newsgroups you get lots of your info from. I really would just like solid proof, other then the "lack of targeting actions using the all command being allowed months into UOR" as our basis for change. please? it is a very reasonable request.

Give me closure.

I don't really enjoy getting into taming issues personally... but taking a quick look wielded a few things that only took a matter of a couple minutes.

Have you noticed that it doesn't work with all commands? I have been giving
commands like "All kill" and I know the pets are tamed hard, but only one
will respond.

The all follow seems to work right though

While summoning water eles tonight, i did an "all release" and lo, they
all disappeared. Prior to this, I had to say it once for each ele. Any
full-time tamers notice any other difference, like all kill?

I will tell you there is a bug with the 'all kill' command, it only works on
one pet no matter how many pets you have. You could have a 1000 dragons and
give an all kill command and only one responds.


That the ignorant GC SOBs, don't know this kind of stuff makes me think it
is a faked screen shot.


So even if the screen shot wasn't faked, IT IS COMPLETELY POINTLESS TO HAVE
THAT MANY DRAGONS! I can't put it any plainer or more emphatic then that,
the dozens of dragons thing DOES NOT WORK!!!! It is a fake, it is a hollow
threat, it isn't real. I fall back to my original comment that this is just
a hysterical response and add: Pobably doctered screen shot.


It is that simple, tame two dogs, give the all kill command on a rabbit, see
how many attack.


I can accept a certain level of ignorance, I can accept a certain level of
disagreement. I draw the line when something is a demonstrable as checking
out the all kill command being broken that can be done in 2 minutes is
ignored so people can say the sky is falling. All guard does work, but
anyone that is guarded has that appearing over their head.

The patch note for this has already been listed in the past and definitely isn't a stealth nerf..

You can now give all your pets orders by prefacing your order with "all." For example, saying, "all follow me" will make all your pets follow you. The list of commands this works with is:
all follow me
all guard me
all come
all stay
all guard me
all stop

Kaivan mentioned before that this list of commands denote all targetable commands since those function only works for your closest pet when the command is spoken. The google comments above is from June '99, November '99, and April '00 which are before our cutoff , on our cutoff, and after our cutoff before the UOR publish in late April '00.

Hopefully this finally clears up the issue for you.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 8d53684b7b

Re read that, the post at the bottom talks about how it works, and its posted in nov 99.

it also talks about speed, and them not getting cought on brambles (better movement AI)

It takes a monumental effort to raise taming to the point where Kill orders are
obeyed quickly. So even All Kill now works, and if a pk could get his 7
dragons to all follow him into a gate at once, and see you before you tossed an
EV into them (in which case they do not see you as the attacker, so they fight
with it instead) and you KOP'd, and he ordered ALL KILL, you'd have a pretty
good chance that half or more would ignore the order, and just get in the way
of the others.

like that quote for example.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 34a6785d23

One of the lovely parts about violating the Never Use Kill Orders rule. The
way that always works for me is to have them guard you, and you attack. As
soon as the target does you any damage, or if he targets you first and the
critter sees that, the critter will attack, and there is no bug associated
with this.

If one of your pets does go after you, even if you attacked it, just give it
ALL STOP and ALL STAY, and run away. I have had probes with bears, dragons,
wyrms, and survived quite well this way.

Im gonna find proof of all kill, this if fun



Oh an look at this, EV's hits are supposed to curse

Thing about EVs is they put you under an instant GM curse, you take a 10
point across the board hit to stats. For someone near their weight limit
they get overloaded and instant death. The graphics also have a tendancy to
lag the target if not out and out crash them, so that helps too.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... fcd37d326d

Off to Destard.

Victim spotted.

'all kill' for the next 5 minutes. (Hey its REALLY hard to command 27 polar
bears at once, follow fine, all kill, and against a dragon, well lets say
the pb's needed some convincing, but I'm sure what finally rallied them was
the sheer massiveness of their attack squad)

Victim is overwhelmed and protests greatly to the onslaught of fluffy white
bears. Many of our brave white furry arctic friends did go down in this
terrible battle, (and I mean MANY) but in the end, Red Dragon prevailed.
After the ceremonial taming of the champion, he was dubbed, "i eatpolar".

I guess I'm looking for feedback, is 50 pb's better than 27? 60 better than
50? Is it worth worrying over? Who's gonna be the next president?

Next mission: How many packhorses does it take to down an ancient wyrm.

Until next time, battle on my bretheren!

That was posted in november of 2000

How can you possibly defend that there was no all kill?

that post proves it

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... fcd37d326d

Off to Destard.

Victim spotted.

'all kill' for the next 5 minutes. (Hey its REALLY hard to command 27 polar
bears at once, follow fine, all kill, and against a dragon, well lets say
the pb's needed some convincing, but I'm sure what finally rallied them was
the sheer massiveness of their attack squad)

Victim is overwhelmed and protests greatly to the onslaught of fluffy white
bears. Many of our brave white furry arctic friends did go down in this
terrible battle, (and I mean MANY) but in the end, Red Dragon prevailed.
After the ceremonial taming of the champion, he was dubbed, "i eatpolar".

I guess I'm looking for feedback, is 50 pb's better than 27? 60 better than
50? Is it worth worrying over? Who's gonna be the next president?

Next mission: How many packhorses does it take to down an ancient wyrm.

Until next time, battle on my bretheren!

That was posted in november of 2000

How can you possibly defend that there was no all kill?

that post proves it

Oh comon, becuase he said right in the post that it was easy, if he had to say all kill 27 times i think he would have mentioned "Spamming" all kill

When there is a the possibility of doubt that can be argued with a piece of information it loses its reliability.

The other two pieces that you seemed to disregard "specifically" states that you had to tell each pet one by one to attack. This was in June 1999 and April 2000. This would mean a ninja patch happened not once, not twice, but three times removing, adding, and removing it again in a matter of a few months.

Do you honestly see a piece of information such as what you listed that can be easily argued against stacks up to the rest of the sources that disagree with it?

I think it's pretty clear he didn't say "all kill" 27 times. Also, people "spammed" "all kill" when it did work, just as often, because they didn't have GM taming and they would often fail commands.

It seems like the simplest explanation here is that "all kill" went in sometime between April 2000 and November 2000. Seems reasonable to me. Also don't forget there's the Pacific Rangers Council website had something supporting there being no "all kill" in T2A era. I can't find the site on archive though, at the moment.

This has been done to death. I tried to search for my prior posts about "all kill" and got the

"The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: all kill."

It would be nice to stop beating a dead horse, and especially nice to stop hijacking threads.

[Faust]

Here is some new information to add to this topic...

But things like the 'all' commands do not work as all and all command, more
like an "Anybody that can hear me". They actually function as command to the
nearest pet/hireling to you, so for instance, when you have 3 pets next to
you and a monster several tiles away, you have to give 3 all kill commands
and they will in sequence attack the monster.


Same holds true for "all release", if you have 3 pets, you have to give 3
all release commands to lose them.


You know how people register displeasure with the whole "vendor buy" thing
when they can't get the vendor they want to respond? Same exact code seems
to have been applied to taming so you get tied up repeatedly having the same
pet take notice of the "all kill" command.

Another off hand comment, you now get a message when you use the "all kill"
command that it doesn't work. I sit here puzzled, it never had worked, so is
this an admission that it is broken or OSI taking credit for a bug as a
feature that avoids an exploit?

[nightshark]

Here is some new information to add to this topic...

But things like the 'all' commands do not work as all and all command, more
like an "Anybody that can hear me". They actually function as command to the
nearest pet/hireling to you, so for instance, when you have 3 pets next to
you and a monster several tiles away, you have to give 3 all kill commands
and they will in sequence attack the monster.


Same holds true for "all release", if you have 3 pets, you have to give 3
all release commands to lose them.


You know how people register displeasure with the whole "vendor buy" thing
when they can't get the vendor they want to respond? Same exact code seems
to have been applied to taming so you get tied up repeatedly having the same
pet take notice of the "all kill" command.

Another off hand comment, you now get a message when you use the "all kill"
command that it doesn't work. I sit here puzzled, it never had worked, so is
this an admission that it is broken or OSI taking credit for a bug as a
feature that avoids an exploit?

I made a tamer (my first and only) well after UO:R, which was after the follower limit. I could only have a dragon and a nightmare, and even then I had to make seperate macros for "a kill", "b kill", since controlling with "all kill" sucked so bad.

[Hemperor]

This has been beaten to death, search for topics... I've quoted over a dozen usenet posts myself and there is more than ample amount of archived info on it.

[Faust]

Yet, there will still be people that say nay good son.

[Hemperor]

I don't think I can think of a single change that has more information backing it then this change.

[tekai]

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... e1896f8346

Castile answered the other questions quite well, I will see what I can
do about this one.
They have changed the "all " commands some so that they need to have a
target. "All follow me" "All guard me" work because you give them a
target in the speech. "All stop" and " all stay" work just fine. "All
kill" actually works but is messed up with multiple pets. The closest
or the most recently commanded will respond to this,the others will
just stand there. If you just have one pet out hunting at a time this
may not be a problem. I just have a macro set for each of my dragons
for "kill" with their name in it." All release" is the same way, only
affecting one creature. Have to be careful with this one, I took my
dragon out to ice island with me once to kill the tames that couldn't
be retamed. Had just typed in " All release" and was just going to hit
the enter button when i realised what I was doing. *You see a corpse
of Halvor*
Pollard,GM Warrior,Catskills
Robin, GM Fisherperson,Catskills
"Less artsy,more fartsy"-Homer(no not him,the other one)

Bolded Important Part. This one prooves it was changed.

Now i just have to find When.

Hemp please, Lack of proof does not = Proof. Please let me fight my case.

[tekai]

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 048b01a37d

I took goats after a Dragon once. A few actually survived. Others killed
the dragon, but they loved the goat attack! I think it freaked out the
Dragon. That was back when "all kill" could be used to launch multiple
pets.
uray

I'm going to find it.

[Faust]

"all kill" was changed... it was removed completely where it no longer worked at all forcing you to say <pet name> kill, etc...

[tekai]

Thats not true, it wasnt taken out. There are posts up until 2004 talking about all kill. Sure it only worked for one pet, but it worked.

Now i just have to find when it was changed from all pets to 1 pet.

[Faust]

Did you not read the google posts as far back as June 1999 that states only the closest pet responds to it?

Bolded Important Part. This one prooves it was changed.

Now i just have to find When.

Well here is the change discussing that particular quote from your post above...

The all commands when used with a [target] cursor has been fixed. It no longer stores commands to be called up later. When you use an all command with [target] cursor, it will give you a system message that you can't use the all command with a target cursor and the last pet that was commanded will follow your command.

This change only removed the target mechanism of "all kill" or any command that uses a target cursor for that matter giving the last pet the command. This means that if you say "all kill" it will automatically give the last pet given a command an attack command. This removed the previous way it worked where the closest pet followed the command.

Here below is where they removed the all commands that create a target for good...

Some commands have been removed. Any "all" command with a target cursor has been removed, as well as fetch (which was disabled anyway), patrol, all release, and all drop. "[Petname] guard me" currently brings up a target cursor when it shouldn't. This is presumed to be a bug.

[Sandro]

EV will curse again?

Idk why this was removed..

[nightshark]

EV will curse again?

Idk why this was removed..

IIRC EV Cursed, harmed and poisoned when you walked into the middle of it. It didn't just curse you willy-nilly. You had to "shove it out of the way"

[uofuntime]

Oh wow I was just going to post about this... glad I found this thread.

So it's debatable whether all kill really affected "all"...

[tekai]

Debateable yes, but ive spent well over 60 hours searching for EXACTLY WHEN it was stealth-nerfed. Everyone including faust all agree it worked "AT SOME POINT" but there is not a single shread of evidence that i can find on the exact day it was nerfed.

Pretty sure it we between June 99 and the release of UOR, but i just can't find the documentation of the day it was changed.. ive tried so bloddy hard too.