Being an accuracy nazi: whats the argument?(opinion)

[Ollie]

Now, don't take this post the wrong way- T2A is and will likely always be the best era in MMO's to date, but what of the superficial changes that honestly should have been in place in the first place?

In accuracy threads I repeatedly see the same couple people argue tooth and nail for changes of good and honestly "functioning as intended" patches back to an era where things were clunkier and a way bigger pain in the rear.

For example:

Lockdowns. Who but a house thief really cares how many lockdowns we can have? By keeping it low at the behest of said thieves, you leave the majority of housing on this shard inaccessible and the ability to decorate driven down to the crapper.

In my opinion OSI underestimated how many lockdowns a home would need and didn't forsee ultra decorated homes being something people would spend a lot of time on.

Now, everyone agrees that the ruleset should never, ever be changed- and I'm not sure if this is even on this server or not since I haven't checked, but I am certain most of the reds and other various murderer types would also be totally against stat-loss and perma-red status.

Perhaps era accuracy discussions should involve the majority of players rather than a few opportunists that just like to steal more than they already do.

To 95% of this server, this change would be lauded. Sadly, if it ever came up, the 5% that would scream until they are red in the face would by far be the most vocal and thus have the most widely considered argument.

The same argument could be said of "checks". Totally harmless, yet gone for the sake of accuracy. Who was harmed by checks?Oh wait, SCAMMERS. Most people hardly even used them back in the day unless they were trillionaires, and to get that rich you pretty much had to be a trammelite- by that point money was all but worthless anyways. 1 mil for a keep here compared to 20 mil for a tower when I quit.

My memory tells me that OSI had a problem with scammers, another very vocal group on this server, but again, consisting of less than 5% of the people you meet here.

The introduction of checks was a massive blow to home scammers, and it removed the awkward mess of having to track down an authentic broker- something which I used to have to do on broker websites that players registered their services on. Here that hardly exists, with the majority of brokers either being the richest and most well known players charging fees that make them further rich for what is a completely redundant service OR they are simply scammers in on the take.

I am of the opinion that a change that doesn't endanger the very basic ruleset of "Wild west" gameplay shouldn't be some large controversial issue. Checks existed in the wild west.. hell.. even in the roman times they had checks, so if you want to be a nitpicky nostalgia freak, checks have been around for over Two thousand years. Origin didn't implement them because they probably didn't figure people would get wealthy enough to need them, or they just didn't think of it when the game was released. Reds, Scammers, and griefers already control most of this server, why not give something to the honest people that actually try to make the economy function in some way other than looting people's houses and corpses?

[Bruno_Steelhart]

I agree with you about checks and also there should be a housing trading gump, but itll never happen because it wasn't in this era. Who would this hurt? you are right only the scammers, but the problem is if you make this change because it is something not era accurate for the right reasons where does it stop. There is a lot of stuff you could put in that wouldnt hurt the game mechanics and would be helpful to have, but on a shard like this where we are going for a certain era you have to draw a line in the sand at a certain date like they have and that be it.

[Ollie]

Completely untrue.

There is no such thing about run-away changes on a server such as this. Derrick is the end-all when it comes to changes.

The truth is that Ultima is a game that has lasted through the ENTIRE MMO genre, and lets face it, today's MMO gamer is not the same as the gamer of 1999.

The truth is that Complete and utter era accuracy is a fool's errand, and the best and the ONLY way to make a server era accurate is to adhere to the principle of the era, which was freedom, risk v. reward, and personal impact on the server.

Throwing a generation of diablo2 and WoW players into a world with as many "Whoops" glitches and unexpected functions is going to produce a griefer's paradise, as we see with the enticing of pets into gates in guard zones with no consequence whatsoever. Say what you will, but that is inherently AGAINST the spirit of the era. You may say scamming is, but why produce a commodity with such a high scam risk? Truth is, they didn't intend to, but people discovered a way to exploit a huge hole in the policy of the game.

No one wants this server to be some fruity mockup like most other servers, but we ALL want to play on a server with the same spirit of the original T2A spirit.

This is a good server, if not the best, but saying that going completely accurate to a fargone era somehow is always a good thing is certainly not the proper way to analyze WHY T2A was so great, as opposed to HOW.

[Derrick]

Before this thread gets to page 14, I want to reference some other similar threads on this subject, both stickied at the top of this forum:

Not directly related in afterthought, but still a good read: Subject: On Accuracy, Events, Razor, Account Limits, Rules, Rudeness
Subject: T2A Accuracy: Progress and Discussion

There are some other really long threads on this though, I wish I'd have sticked them :/

[Bruno_Steelhart]

I'm not disagreeing with you I am just telling you how it is. I would love to see checks no reason not too other than era accuracy. I would love to see phase 2 housing because my favorite house was a small tower no reason not too other than accuracy. Personally I loved the game all the way up till AOS. I loved the champ spawns because it got hordes of more people into the dungeons. The problem with the champ spawns was the rewards for them the friggin powerscrolls god how I loathed the powerscrolls. I loved the tailoring and smithing bods. The problem with those was once again the rewards the stupid runic hammers that made weapons the unbalanced pvp. The powerscrolls coupled with the runic hammers begun a downward spiral that completely destroyed the game for me. The worst part was I liked the spawns and the bods they just overpowered the rewards. Wow I really got off on a tangent here. Yes they could put in a few changes that would not hurt the gameplay or mechanics and would greatly hurt the scammers only, but it aint gonna happen so just play the shard for what it is and enjoy it. No shard will ever be perfect and there will always be things in your mind that could be better.

[Ollie]

I'm not disagreeing with you I am just telling you how it is. I would love to see checks no reason not too other than era accuracy. I would love to see phase 2 housing because my favorite house was a small tower no reason not too other than accuracy. Personally I loved the game all the way up till AOS. I loved the champ spawns because it got hordes of more people into the dungeons. The problem with the champ spawns was the rewards for them the friggin powerscrolls god how I loathed the powerscrolls. I loved the tailoring and smithing bods. The problem with those was once again the rewards the stupid runic hammers that made weapons the unbalanced pvp. The powerscrolls coupled with the runic hammers begun a downward spiral that completely destroyed the game for me. The worst part was I liked the spawns and the bods they just overpowered the rewards. Wow I really got off on a tangent here. Yes they could put in a few changes that would not hurt the gameplay or mechanics and would greatly hurt the scammers only, but it aint gonna happen so just play the shard for what it is and enjoy it. No shard will ever be perfect and there will always be things in your mind that could be better.

Its not that I don't see where you're coming from- The same thing happens with all Retail MMO's. One change leads to whining which leads to more changes. I'm just saying that perhaps Total era accuracy is completely impossible, and honestly counter-intuitive to encouraging more people to come here. Is this server supposed to be a museum thats meant to be visited, enjoyed, then left behind?

I find myself always talking about "the good old days" of UO in every game I've played since UO retail became a slag heap. Its not "not being able to sell a house without having intense anxiety about getting scammed" that I miss, its simply the freedom of choice that no game has come close to since UO T2A. And I agree, the housing publish was amazing had it not been for trammell.

The big issue I see is that tramell ruined the game so intensely that people put up the cross and utter exorcist phrases every time a post T2A addition comes up, when in fact thats a total misconception about what actually happened after UO:R.

In reality, Every single change made to the game pre-Third dawn would have been fantastic if it wasn't for the weeniefication of the game in general. I moved to siege perilious as soon as Tramell came out and had a ton of fun with the new features sans tramell.

Tramell sucked, we can all agree on that, but adding checks to the game =/= making different ore colors have all sorts of silly effects and removing pvp altogether.

One example of a purely topical, yet AMAZING addition to the game after UO:R were House plants with cross breeding/etc. That was an amazing addition to the game, and no one could possibly argue that it took something away from the spirit of Felucca. Same as the second housing patch.

Now, I'm not in favor of super radical change- despite how much I'd love to see it- simply because it won't happen, but I think some people trying to hunt down every innaccuracy and eliminate it seriously need to lighten up. Many of the changes to the game in UO:R were great. Tramell was the deal breaker and making the hally/mage pvp build obsolete was an additional problem.


Derek: I actually have read many of those threads which, ironically, is why I posted this one. I'm not so much targetting any specific issue as much as I am targetting the body of fingerwaving accuracy drones.

Now, if it is indeed the absolute and unwavering goal to make this server 100% accurate to 1999, then I retract this statement, but its easy to shoot that argument straight out of the sky by simply logging in and observing the Automated events. This is by far less accurate to the era than Checks, new housing types, plants, or increased lockdowns in houses.
So, to those arguing tooth and nail for accuracy- put that in your pipe and smoke it- a popular change thats not accurate to the area will typically stick around if it encourages more people to play. That is what I propose.

Edit: I also want to point out that I thought Runic hammers and Champ spawns were reallly, really stupid. Anyone else notice how prevalent tamers and bards got during that time? I do, because those are the only people who got any use out of champ spawns.

[MatronDeWinter]

The truth is that Complete and utter era accuracy is a fool's errand, and the best and the ONLY way to make a server era accurate is to adhere to the principle of the era, which was freedom, risk v. reward, and personal impact on the server.

and you do that by removing freedom, risk, reward and personal impact?

[Ollie]

The truth is that Complete and utter era accuracy is a fool's errand, and the best and the ONLY way to make a server era accurate is to adhere to the principle of the era, which was freedom, risk v. reward, and personal impact on the server.

and you do that by removing freedom, risk, reward and personal impact?

And what do you mean by that? Removing an obvious oversight to give more freedom to home sellers/decorators/anyone who isn't dishonest by nature?

I do not see how adding something that is clearly necessary takes anything away. Like I said, a tiny fraction of players are serial home looters/scammers. If you can prove to me that more people benefit from this than just a tiny fraction, I'll agree- no offense, but you're a well known and documented cretin, so you fit into the 5% of the population of "Red in the face" folks that defend their right to scam/steal using obvious in-game mechanic oversights that most normal people don't give two craps about. I saw someone in the chat room earlier droning about leaving their key unlocked on the ground and that they lost some stuff as a result. Hello? Beuller? That's utterly stupid.

now if you mean, taking away freedom from YOU and maybe 4 or 5 other people, then yes, if its better for everyone else. Meanwhile, the rest of us would like some way to defend ourselves from utter nonsense scams and glitches.

You can not tell me that vendor bombing a house is "working as intended."

That alone is a phrase that GM's and Developers use to cover their asses until they find a way to code a fix..... which is exactly what happened on this shard not long after your guild did that if I read properly.

I'd like to add that I do not care about your feud with anyone/anything on this server nor do I think you are incorrect most of the time. Honestly I think you usually make good points in threads, but this is something that we clearly have a difference of opinion on.

P.S. Personal impact doesn't always have to be negative, discouraging, and a reason for people to leave the shard, as you seem to imply.

[tekai]

You can not tell me that vendor bombing a house is "working as intended."

Yes, it is not only working as intended, but the only way someone can grief a "non leaving town" charecter.

In a sandbox game it is my job to make you mad so you keep playing.

[Faust]

Derek: I actually have read many of those threads which, ironically, is why I posted this one. I'm not so much targetting any specific issue as much as I am targetting the body of fingerwaving accuracy drones.

Now, if it is indeed the absolute and unwavering goal to make this server 100% accurate to 1999, then I retract this statement, but its easy to shoot that argument straight out of the sky by simply logging in and observing the Automated events.

Try reading a little harder since you apparently haven't read the billion threads that relate to the events and era accuracy.

The server aims to replicate the t2a era around November '99 and that's that in a nutshell.

[applejack]

You can not tell me that vendor bombing a house is "working as intended."

It worked exactly as I intended it to work!

[Ollie]

Derek: I actually have read many of those threads which, ironically, is why I posted this one. I'm not so much targetting any specific issue as much as I am targetting the body of fingerwaving accuracy drones.

Now, if it is indeed the absolute and unwavering goal to make this server 100% accurate to 1999, then I retract this statement, but its easy to shoot that argument straight out of the sky by simply logging in and observing the Automated events.

Try reading a little harder since you apparently haven't read the billion threads that relate to the events and era accuracy.

The server aims to replicate the t2a era around November '99 and that's that in a nutshell.

Thats perfectly fine, but why be inconsistent?

[TheEttinKing]

Fuck cutting 60k bandaids 1 at a time is for suckers and its the accuracy nazi's fault i have to do this.

[Faust]

Thats perfectly fine, but why be inconsistent?

What are you talking about?

[bismuth]

The problem with this shard is that era inaccuracy IS OKAY, but only if it benefits the "right" kind of players.

For example take the housing system. It is completely and utterly inaccurate, a horrendous bastardization of phase 2 and phase 3 housing. Why is it inaccurate? Because phase 3 housing--the correct housing phase for this shard's target date--removed house looting.

So it is not at all true that this shard values accuracy over all else. The reality is that they value enabling griefing over all else. Accuracy gets thrown out the window as soon as it comes down to either being accurate or supporting griefing.