Squelching vs. Tamed Animals blocking doors/paths

[Cornelius]

I'm not sure I understand why it's OK for a player to tame 50 cows/sheep/birds/etc. in Delucia, then use them to intentionally block the bank doors or the path(s) out of town, yet it's not OK to say "guards" at bank while macroing, or why there is no spamming at bank.

Let me explain. I understand the idea behind the no spamming at bank rule; because it is annoying and a nuisance to other players. And I understand the idea behind squelching players who are saying guards while macroing in a public place; because it is annoying and a nuisance to other players. Yet blocking doors and paths with tamed animals, while clearly annoying and a nuisance to other players, is just fine. Am I the only one who sees the double standard?

Squelching someone "semi-permanently" (until they page a GM) is a much more harsh punishment than simply moving tamed animals that the owner doesn't even care about other than to annoy everyone. It's harsh because the squelched player cannot call guards or access their bank box, plus they are made vulnerable by displaying "(squelched)" after their name, alerting thieves, reds, and others that they can't call guards. Furthermore, I'm not even suggesting that a tamer who decides to block doors and paths should even be punished...I'm just requesting that tamed animals that are blocking doors and paths are moved a tile or two out of the way upon request.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be a dick, and I'm not suggesting to allow spamming at bank, nor am I suggesting that players shouldn't be squelched (even though I think it's sort of ridiculous). I'm just requesting that if a player is blocked in in a public, guard-protected space due to another player's intentionally placed tamed animals, that a GM could move said animals upon request.

[Rammar]

They don't? The bridge into Britain has a sign which pretty much says animals that block it will meet an untimely end. I imagine the same would apply to obnoxiously blocking areas in most guarded regions.

[Cornelius]

I've requested several times to have animals moved from the door of Delucia bank and I've been told directly from Derrick that GMs do not "interfere" unless it is out of control. The first time, I was told that eating food would get me through it. The second time, which was nearly double the animals a day or two later, I was told to use enticement to move the animals if I really wanted to. In the meantime, it took me nearly 10 minutes to move through the herd as I waited for stamina to regenerate...ridiculous!

The sign in Britain regarding animals directly contradicts this. What gives?

[Rammar]

Evidently it wasn't egregious enough then, exactly as derrick said.

If its that bothersome in that area, don't go inside the bank. You can also eat a bite or so per "shove", drink refresh pots, teleport, recall, entice, kill them (carefully), lure some orcs in, beg a gate, or even bank then suicide to walk through as a ghost. Think creatively. Fun could be had out of what otherwise would be an annoyance.

Find the tamer, and grief the hell out of them! Not so easy to gain taming if you keep killing what they hope to gain on.

[Cornelius]

LOL, I mention Derrick and your entire attitude about it changed. Incredible.

You are completely missing my point. There's no reason for me to have to get creative. As originally stated, it's annoying and a nuisance. If it isn't, why is it illegal in Britain bridge but OK in Delucia? I'm drawing a comparison between the ridiculous annoyance of squelching and the ridiculous annoyance of newb tamers intentionally blocking players.

You honestly feel that banking every single item on you and in your pack, suiciding, moving through as a ghost, waiting 2 minutes to unflag, running across town to resurrect, running bank to bank, and re-arming at bank, is a reasonable alternative? Even if it wasn't a gigantic waste of time and effort, I'm not the one being an annoyance, the newb tamer causing a blockage is...why should I have to go through all of that trouble? Furthermore, even I agreed with your idea, what about my mount? I'm supposed to abandon it inside the bank?

Anyway, all of your supposed solutions are weak. I don't have enticement on my character and I'm not making a new character with enticement (because, again, I'm not the nuisance, the tamer is), my dexer doesn't have magery, no one is EVER in Del bank to gate me, I have no red potions or food in bank so I'm stranded, etc. etc. etc. The bottom line is that I have a valid point, that being, if saying guards repeatedly is an annoyance and hinders gameplay, and blocking paths with animals is an annoyance and hinders gameplay, why is one illegal and one not? Furthermore, why is blocking with animals illegal in Britain, but legal elsewhere? Why are rules picked-and-chosen for when they apply and without any basis?

[Rammar]

LOL, I mention Derrick and your entire attitude about it changed. Incredible.

Sorry, Derrick's words have more authority than a sign. I was previously making an assumption as to what it meant.

You honestly feel that banking every single item on you and in your pack, suiciding, moving through as a ghost, waiting 2 minutes to unflag, running across town to resurrect, running bank to bank, and re-arming at bank, is a reasonable alternative? Even if it wasn't a gigantic waste of time and effort, I'm not the one being an annoyance, the newb tamer causing a blockage is...why should I have to go through all of that trouble? Furthermore, even I agreed with your idea, what about my mount? I'm supposed to abandon it inside the bank?

Better spending 5 minutes doing that, than 10 waiting for stamina to regen naturally walking through them. But yeah, no mount without back gating.

Anyway, all of your supposed solutions are weak. I don't have enticement on my character and I'm not making a new character with enticement (because, again, I'm not the nuisance, the tamer is), my dexer doesn't have magery, no one is EVER in Del bank to gate me, I have no red potions or food in bank so I'm stranded, etc. etc. etc.

Banking from outside won't help alleviate the issue? Your completely opposed to magery (Even a complete newb can use a teleport scroll)? Can't keep any food/pots in your bank? Not much more I can say to help then, seems you're opposed to helping yourself.

The bottom line is that I have a valid point, that being, if saying guards repeatedly is an annoyance and hinders gameplay, and blocking paths with animals is an annoyance and hinders gameplay, why is one illegal and one not? Furthermore, why is blocking with animals illegal in Britain, but legal elsewhere? Why are rules picked-and-chosen for when they apply and without any basis?

The rules might have something to do with blocking access to town (or newbie spawn points), not necessarily any single building. I do wish some of these rules were clarified and written somewhere.

[Pirul]

The only explanation I can come up with is that there are few reasons you MUST go inside the bank at Del, when it is perfectly normal to bank from outside. On the other hand you are blocking the main way between a new character starting point and a moongate (main form of transportation for new players).

On a side note:

... my dexer doesn't have magery, no one is EVER in Del bank to gate me, I have no red potions or food in bank...

You Sir, have more problems than a blocked door. Do yourself a favor and buy a keg of total refresh potions...oh, and carry at least 8-10 on you at all times!!!

[Cornelius]

We have some expert point-missers on this server.

Either that, or expert brown nosers.

I love how you are pro-newb character for blocking a bridge, but anti-newb character for not having red potions or magery. If you're going to take a position one one thing, don't go completely against it immediately thereafter. And that, FYI, is the entire point of this thread. The point of not allowing animals in one area is not a universal point, it's a "pick-and-choose" point, meaning there is no real rule or real rationale behind it (like most other things on this server, for that matter).

While your reason is stronger than others I've heard, any "newb" that knows where Britain gate is and has a purpose for using it is probably not a newb at all. Besides, at least he or she can buy or make red potions, or go back to the busiest bank in the game and ask for assistance. If I'm stuck inside the 25-tile Delucia bank, how many options do I have for assistance? I can't buy red pots, I can't buy food, I can't get to anyone to ask for help other than others stranded in the bank. Additionally, the person stuck at Britain bridge has the option to go up and around Lord British's castle. Is it a convenient option? No, but sitting stuck in Delucia bank isn't convenient, either...and it's one more option than the person stuck in Delucia bank has.

You people act like I'm asking for the most ridiculous and unbelievable rule clarification ever. It's fairly simple. Even the jackasses at OSI figured this one out...they made a simple rule that you can't impede other players with tamed animals unless they are serving a purpose. It's a fair rule, its a simple rule, and it's a clear rule. If the powers-that-be here disagree with implementing such a rule, it may be silly, but at least we will have clarification. But with an average player base of under 400 people, why piss even 1 off, or why make even 1 struggle needlessly at the hands of a newly created tamer character for no reason?

[Rammar]

You people act like I'm asking for the most ridiculous and unbelievable rule clarification ever.

The rules might have something to do with blocking access to town (or newbie spawn points), not necessarily any single building. I do wish some of these rules were clarified and written somewhere.

No, not really. I completely agreed on that point.

I've requested several times to have animals moved from the door of Delucia bank and I've been told directly from Derrick that GMs do not "interfere" unless it is out of control.

Derrick told you in-game what the rule was regarding blocking with tames. I've tried to give you options to make it less annoying. There's no need to be petty just because no one is as upset about this as you are.

[Cornelius]

As usual...like sheep to the slaughter.

[Zelek Uther]

I understand the idea behind the no spamming at bank rule; because it is annoying and a nuisance to other players. And I understand the idea behind squelching players who are saying guards while macroing in a public place; because it is annoying and a nuisance to other players.

With due respect, I don't think these rules are for the stated reasons.

I believe these rules are to avoid server congestion at a bank. Everything said at a bank* has to be relayed by the server to every client within range. These rules prevent excessive lag around the bank.

(In a similar vein, people shouldn't AFK macro in congested areas. Unattended clients in a busy area are an unnecessary drain on server network bandwidth.)

There are a lot of things that are annoying and a nuisance to other players in UO, to name a few:

• thieving
• player-killing
• house-looting
• scamming

Or perhaps these things are incredibly fun, depending on your viewpoint.

* Obviously this applies everywhere, but is an issue at congested areas like banks.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Last time I checked an animal blockade is the least of your worries out there
BTW- macroing 8 characters' study skills for this long sucks :p

PS- Avoid spamming by recording something like this in your macro

for loop 1-5
If sys message "attacking you"
pause 1 sec.
say "Guards kill this bloody Nube"
End If
If sys message "steal"
Pause one sec
say "Guards kill this wretch"
End if
End for

[Spentrav]

I think this is a valid point and it is an EXTREME annoyance. I really wish that Derrick would get our point here. What is the reasoning behind NOT killing animals blocking doorways for an extended period of time? It is usually quite obvious when a tamer has simply left their animals in an obviously "blocking" spot and, if you will please excuse my choice of language, it is usually someone just trying to be a dick. This is especially annoying in the Britain Bank. Again I ask, why would you NOT kill these animals intentionally blocking doors/paths? That is one question I do not see answered in this thread.

~Spentrav

[Pied Piper]

All that other crap aside, I do think that having that rule for the bridge in Britain but not banks is a double standard. Thing is we live in a world where double standards are every where.

Also all the tames cause lag at banks just like spamming does. I have experienced it myself.

You will get no sympathy for 95% percent of the people in the forums because they are sociopaths anyways and are probably the people doing it.

Good luck to you and hope you stay. Even though 90% or so of the people on this shard are POS the 10% or so cool people are so nice and helpful it is what make it worth staying. All the other 90% do is make this place stay around 100 or so active people....400/3= 133 or so people really playing (everyone runs 3 clients)

My suggestion is....if you are having problems being a lone wolf join a guild.

You have the POS guilds such as cA and KNB (just to name a couple) that are full of the sociopaths I speak of, but then there are some cool ones.

Check out the guild section, join an active guild with a strong daily showing, and things will be 100% better.

*EDIT* don't trust the guild webpages. Some of the ones claiming to be "mature players" and "non-asshats" are exactly what they are claiming not to be...

[Safir]

Check this thread. I think it will clearly show that it really depends on the situation and how severe a hindrance it is. I don't think it should be enforced to heavily.