Ticks and weapon speed

[wgensel]

I just wanted to clarify a few things with ticks and weapon speed, etc. I am assuming that weapon speed round up to the next tick instead of truncating.

That is, if you have an attack speed of 1.6 you will hit every 7 ticks (1.75). Am I right so far?

I also know a lot of tank mages here do 35 dex instead of 25, I am assuming so they can get it down to 9 ticks from 10 with wrestling speed. However, even at 34 dex it's still under the 9 tick speed. Would it work the same then?

I am basically asking all this because I noticed most med warriors went with about 85 dex. I am going macing with my Med Warrior, and if I do 79 dex it's still below the 7 tick cutoff for a qstaff. So I assume someone with 79 dex and someone with 85 dex swing at the same speed. Can anyone confirm this and tell me if there is any reason to go with the 85 instead?

[wgensel]

^

[Mikel123]

You should think of weapon speed in ticks (then translate it to seconds). Here is the process:

60000/(stamina+100) = number of ticks between swings
round this number DOWN to the nearest tick
then multiply by .25 to get the number of seconds between swings

[wgensel]

Cool, so I was right basically i think hah. Maybe I should have just made a med warrior thread. Put it this way mikel123, how much dex vs int do you suggest for a med warrior with macing and why?

[Mikel123]

Trick question. I don't suggest a Med Warrior

Seriously though, if anything, you can put Wrestling as your 7th skill, but Meditation is a waste in my opinion.

So, is this for pvp or pvm? If you're fighting monsters, let's say you use a q-staff. 109 stamina is where you attain a swing every 1.25 ticks. On the other hand, for PvM, you might be happy without using blue potions... in which case, 79 stamina is where you'd gain a swing every 1.5 seconds (78 stamina is 1.75). Now, me personally, I'd add about 12 stamina as a "buffer", for having pushed through something (-10 for pushing through something big) and another 2 stamina from fatigue from running. So, let's say 79+12 = 91. So I'd go with 91 Dex, minimum, to help ensure I was always swinging at max speed.

For PvP, you're sadly better off weapon cycling (disarming, waiting until a wrestling swing has loaded, then re-arming and using the wrestling swing with a weapon). But, for disrupting Recalls, Greater Heals, and whatever else, if you want to swing every 1.25 seconds, again you'll need 109+ stamina. Let's say 110 because I always seem to be down 1 stamina from running. So 90 raw Dex is as low as I'd go, and you'll have to be real vigilant about red and blue potions.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

I am basically asking all this because I noticed most med warriors went with about 85 dex. I am going macing with my Med Warrior, and if I do 79 dex it's still below the 7 tick cutoff for a qstaff. So I assume someone with 79 dex and someone with 85 dex swing at the same speed. Can anyone confirm this and tell me if there is any reason to go with the 85 instead?

You haven't performed any "bad math": the breakpoint for 1.75-second (7 ticks) attacks with a Quarterstaff is indeed 79 Stamina, and this is as fast as that weapon gets; the breakpoint for 2.00 seconds (8 ticks) is 57 Stamina.

I am hoping someone can confirm that Faust indeed declared the following:

"[to the effect of] attack-speed calculations are not influenced by Stamina values in excess of 100; 100+ Stamina is treated as 100 Stamina."

This will be an important consideration, I'm sure many would agree.

SS

[nightshark]

Though 79 is the breakpoint, remember that your stamina will be constantly drained through all types of attacks on you - the moment your stam reduces by even 1 (at 79 dex), it will add an extra tick to your swing speed. You only have to even run a few tiles before you will lose 1 stamina.

[wgensel]

I am basically asking all this because I noticed most med warriors went with about 85 dex. I am going macing with my Med Warrior, and if I do 79 dex it's still below the 7 tick cutoff for a qstaff. So I assume someone with 79 dex and someone with 85 dex swing at the same speed. Can anyone confirm this and tell me if there is any reason to go with the 85 instead?

You haven't performed any "bad math": the breakpoint for 1.75-second (7 ticks) attacks with a Quarterstaff is indeed 79 Stamina, and this is as fast as that weapon gets; the breakpoint for 2.00 seconds (8 ticks) is 57 Stamina.

I am hoping someone can confirm that Faust indeed declared the following:

"[to the effect of] attack-speed calculations are not influenced by Stamina values in excess of 100; 100+ Stamina is treated as 100 Stamina."

This will be an important consideration, I'm sure many would agree.

SS

I tried with a q-staff on test center and it at least seemed to me that with dex over 109 the q-staff swung 1 tick faster, at 5 ticks instead of 6. I believe this has been confirmed elsewhere as well that you can get the q-staff and kat to 5 ticks with a blue pot, but kryss doesn't get faster than 5 ticks.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

Perhaps you mis-spoke yourself there: 109 Stamina with a QStaff would cycle strikes every 6 ticks, not 5, assuming that values over 100 are indeed incorporated into the calculation.

I am positive that somewhere inside one of the relatively-recent posts, Faust asserted that the attack-speed calculation would not account for Stamina values in excess of 100; I will look some more, to see if I can find it (or, rather, whatever he did say, if I am indeed misrepresenting the occurrence). I was hoping someone else with a better memory might point us all to it.

I am also very sure that Faust asserted that 1.25 seconds was the absolutely fastest attack cycle (theoretically) attainable: the attack algorithm requires a minimum of 5 ticks to progress through all of its transitory states. At 100 Stamina, this would require a weapon attack speed rating of 60 (the katana, at 58, only barely misses this).

I will look for both statements.

EDIT1:
here: http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22922

Secondly, no swing can be faster than 5 ticks(1.25s).

EDIT2:
perhaps this: http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... 28#p198328

Swing speed is capped at 5 ticks and can go no lower even with 923828903892 stamina/dex or the same speed for a weapon.

but, um, I don't think so; still looking ...

SS

[nightshark]

I think faust was just referring to certain weapons not being any faster when dex is increased to 120 - in that case it makes no difference to be at 120 or 100 dex.

[wgensel]

Perhaps you mis-spoke yourself there: 109 Stamina with a QStaff would cycle strikes every 6 ticks, not 5, assuming that values over 100 are indeed incorporated into the calculation.

I am positive that somewhere inside one of the relatively-recent posts, Faust asserted that the attack-speed calculation would not account for Stamina values in excess of 100; I will look some more, to see if I can find it (or, rather, whatever he did say, if I am indeed misrepresenting the occurrence). I was hoping someone else with a better memory might point us all to it.

I am also very sure that Faust asserted that 1.25 seconds was the absolutely fastest attack cycle (theoretically) attainable: the attack algorithm requires a minimum of 5 ticks to progress through all of its transitory states. At 100 Stamina, this would require a weapon attack speed rating of 60 (the katana, at 58, only barely misses this).

I will look for both statements.

EDIT1:
here: http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22922

Secondly, no swing can be faster than 5 ticks(1.25s).

SS

Ok, there are a few things here. First, I don't think I made an error.

15000/((100+109)*48= 1.49 which would round down to 5 ticks, correct?

Also, katana speed is only 48, the wiki currently is incorrect. This has been stated in a thread somewhere, but I don't remember where. I also don't know why the wiki isn't updated, but there it is.

The q-staff and kat have the same speed of 48, but kryss is faster at 53. At 120 dex kat and q-staff should be down to 5 ticks. At 100 dex kryss is 5 ticks, but continues to stay at 5 ticks even at 120 dex.

I believe wrestling, however, has a speed of 55. It should be able to get down to 4 ticks with 120 dex.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

15000/((100+109)*48= 1.49 which would round down to 5 ticks, correct?

Predicated on the assertion that this should be rounded down, you would be correct ... I see absolutely no reason why it should be rounded down, however: this renders every weapon 1 tick faster, and I find this prospect counter-intuitive, at the very least; this has perhaps been declared by someone from staff, though?

Era-accurate documentation pegs the katana at 58 attack speed (and I remember this in the documentation from that time), but I have never taken the opportunity to actually time swings and/or to test it against, say, a kryss; I have no independent knowledge of what variances might be in play here at UOSA.

I have slightly-fuzzy memories of the katana being faster: I can look up the Stratics weapon essay that asserts that a Vanquishing Katana turns any dexxer into "a human cuisinart"; the author uses the katana as an example, not a kryss; a weapon speed of 48 would also not generate the raw damage figures given in the weapons study.

We seem to have a few items in need of clarification.

SS

[wgensel]

Here is some more info...


http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... yss+katana

This (48) will be in next publish.

The Kryss has a speed of 53, and there will be no change.

[Mikel123]

Just to avoid a re-hash of the orginal katana thread(s)... Xena Dragon of Stratics actually forwarded an email received back in 1999 from a very anal person who literally timed himself swinging a katana for 60 seconds, and recorded the number of swings and the stamina he had. And, it turns out his data would indicate a katana speed of somewhere between 46 and 48, I think. So while all evidence in past posts, plus Stratics, refers to a katana as "fast" or "the fastest", this is the only piece of evidence I know of that actually quantified it.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

I've looked over the katana threads (thanks for the pointer), and am satisfied to learn that 48 is the value being used here; making a wry face, I've noted that Mr. Anal 33 Dex was "too slow" by exactly 1 tick, and 33 is not far above the breakpoint at 29 Stam (not exactly "smoking gun", methinks) ...

I'd always felt that an attack speed of 58 for the katana was imbalanced, anyway, so: no harm, no foul.

However, I ask that someone point me to the justification for rounding down the results of attack-speed-calculations; I've remarked I find this counter-intuitive, as "failing to make the grade" is rarely awarded the grade ...

SS