Tournament Discrepensies

[Flash Hardstar]

O.k. I know one of these has been argued left and right, but I feel it deserves another thread.

1. Survival Game

Provoking should not be allowed in survival game. I believe the whole idea of the survival game (being able to use pots, poison, magic weps) Is to see who can go the longest fighting these monsters. I just watched for near 10 minutes a bard and a 6X gm dexer go at it. Guess who won? My discrespency is not that a bard beat a warrior, but that a bard will ALWAYS win this tournmanet, it isn't fair to any of class in-game. Should be called something other than survival game, possibly music game? The bard can one after the other provoke monsters onto eachother as they pop out, and because they pop out in a sequential orde,r only slightly tougher than the last, the bard ends up with a room full of monsters fighting eachother that dont just dominate the last and then attack the bard. Arguable as to whats on paper, im talking the realistics of what happends when a bard enters this tournament. They take near no damage, and if they do its MAYBE one hit when the monster first pops out. even on tougher monsters, the way the game works they never run out of things to provoke. Yes, they MAY at some point run out, but no other play or class in game will be able to handle a terathen avenger, kill it in time before a cyclops pops out... dragons etc. the bard could probobly handle this till Ancient Wyrms pop out, it's not realistic of a "survival" game, possibly of a "bard" game. Also, if anyone claims they CAN beat a bard in this tournament, not only is it un-true, i'll meet anytime to watch it happen. Make this event not only fair, but give it a little meaning and skill. A 2X GM bard beating a 6X GM warrior in survival everytime it isnt even a slight advantage, it's 110% unfair. This one deserves a revamp. No more provocation.


1v1PvP

Yep, thats right, Poisoning!

Ok, so I want to know why Derrick, you don't allow poisoned weapons in 1v1 pvp. I have a skill on my character called "poisoning". It's amazingly useful in pvp, it's why it's on the character so I can poison a weapon at any time to defend myself against dominating tank mages. Some reasoning involves completely cancelling a warriors means of healing in these tournaments. A Mage can cast a 1 second spell, and cancel your heal for almost 40 seconds. Now, the mages that dominate this shard scream "no, no poisoned weps, no poisnoning" yet they cast poison on any dexer they fight. If a character with a skill labeled "poisoning" cannot use it, a whole 100 points of skills in a tournament when they were there for pvp purpouses to begin with, then why should a character with a skill labeled "magery" be able to poison? A "poisoner" cannot poison, but a mage can? The era is already giving an advantage to mages , and dexers are even more handicapped in GM run events. If a mage can poison in these events, why am I not allowed to poison a weapon during the fight and use it, it is a skill of mine too, except all mine does is poison, it doesnt cast Explosions and Energy Bolts! Poisoning weapons for characters with the skill allowed in events, or no poisoning at all!

NOW

For all you tank mages out there who want to keep not allowing poisoned weapons in, and mages allowed to poison people, I want ONE GOOD REASON why it should stay as it is. Don't make some lame excuse, don't be a smartass and leave un-constructive comments. If anyone has any one legitamate reason why we shouldn't be allowed to poison our weapons during the fight, or disable mages from poisoning as well, or why you think it's fair a mage can poison but a dexer can't, state your case. The reason may also not be that "it will be harder to kill dexers" Or "it will be unfair/unbalanced" because anybody whos been here a week see's how unbalanced the 1v1 3v3 are, and I think i've stated an extremely just case of why it is unfair for dexers. Please post why it would be unjust to have it in place. Please don't post "make a mage" either, I have one. I'm trying to make the system more fair, balanced, and bring more diversity and skill to the field.

I would also like for Derrick to make note of any legitmagely reasoned arguments against mine, and consider these stipulations.

[Is it in]

If they didn't allow provoking in survival game then bards would be virtually useless in all events.

[Derrick]

I think you make a very fair case for allowing poisoning. This has been brought up before, but I honestly can't remember the reasons it wasn't put in. Hash it out and let me know, wheter it should be added or not.

It's up to you guys, I don't fight in the tourneys

On the Survival, the original concept was that there would be very little restriction of what you could do in there. We didn't envision bards dominating as they do, but the rules have been left unchanged since the game opened. I certainly think it would be a much more interesting game without provoke.

[Red]

I think it would be incredibly interesting if you could only use poisoned weapons in GM events if you actually had a substantial skill level in poisoning. Say, you had to have atleast 50 poisoning to use poisoned weapons in GM events.

I just don't know if that's possible..

[draggle]

I completely agree with both arguments. Bards don't risk any damage and win every survival event... Poisoning should also be allowed, but only for characters with the skill. Dexxers should have to reapply the poison to their weapon once they are already in the event. It really doesnt make sense that mages can poison and poisoners cant!

[alatar]

I agree with both arguements. I originally had a post about tournament rules and one of the things that I listed was allowing poisoning in events for those characters that had the skill.

I think that if it becomes over-powerful that we could just limit the level of poison applied to greater, as the highest for events.

One thing for the Survival Game, if it would be possible to maybe edit the region that the game takes place in to adjust the difficulty settings for provocation. Maybe implement a system where you have a substantially higher chance to fail at provocation, or maybe implement the older system in which it was based on whether or not the target was actually attacking you & their intelligence determined your success rate, strictly for the Survival Area.

[Ronk]

I never play the 1v1 tourneys because its impossible to win as a dexxer without magic unless the mage sucks or I get extremely lucky. I am all for giving those who invest in the poisoning skill the ability to use the poison.

As for survival, I have never played it. Is there any reason everyone doesn't simply gang up on the provokers and kill them? Is survival not about pvp as well?

[Faust]

Dexers should also think about this in retrospect. A tank mage with a dp'd hally will have a chance of poisoning a dexer also, which will more than likely mean certain death since it isn't the easiest to cure even with 100 magery. I think if we do decide to do this that there should be both types of 1v1 tourneys with and without. Most people think of poisoned weapons as cheap and unskillful in a 1v1 duel. The same goes for pots, para, and so forth. This may "enhance" a dexers 1v1, but it would degrade a tank mage vs tank mage 1v1 significantly.

[Teknix]

faust, i dont think a mage would be using a dp hally in the event. tank mages dont have poisoning.

a dexxer (or any character w/ poisoning) can apply the poison as soon as that stone wall drops


am i right? that is how i see it working

[BlackFoot]

if you allow pisoning during the event than you have to allow pots, as the poisoner is allwoed to use pots is all
i think this would all be easier to just have the magic/potions toggle off and on more at event start ups as of now it is 99% no magics no pots and have no rules, field spells ect, poisoning so on

for survival
have class battles, warrior class/ mage class/bard class ect
i like going bard vs bard in survival see who can survive multiple AWs the longest ehehh, but you will see no matter what you do to survival a certain stratgey is going to eventually dominate and win everytime

[Flash Hardstar]

Dexers should also think about this in retrospect. A tank mage with a dp'd hally will have a chance of poisoning a dexer also, which will more than likely mean certain death since it isn't the easiest to cure even with 100 magery. I think if we do decide to do this that there should be both types of 1v1 tourneys with and without. Most people think of poisoned weapons as cheap and unskillful in a 1v1 duel. The same goes for pots, para, and so forth. This may "enhance" a dexers 1v1, but it would degrade a tank mage vs tank mage 1v1 significantly.

Teknix is right. Tank mages wouldn't be allowed to use DP hallys unless of course they had the poisoning skill. Even if they could, a dexer wouldnt have much trouble curing it with bandages and they invested in the skill, which means they would have to sacrifice another (such as wrestling) which evens out in the end.

EDIT: Also, I don't see anything unskillfull or cheap about poisoning weapons mid battle, it slows you down for a bit and the charges burn fast. Also, how would this degrade tank mage vrs tank mage? Why must characters have an exact set of skills to do well in GM events? I also dont see what it would do to tank mage vrs tank mage, they don't use poisoning!!! What I found cheap was the 8 minute 1v1 duel I had yesterday in which a charagcer named Dragon's Breath seemed to have 2 skills, healing and anatomy. he was fizzling on 5th circle spells. However, he nearly got me a few times casting poison, running, casting lightning a few times, reapplying poison, etc. He was running around using bandages the entire time. so he was arguably a 2X gm, or one whos only offense skill was magery in the 50's and had almost got me, cause he kept casting poison which ticked away life over time and continuously cancelled my heals. THAT is unskilled and unfair. it's exploiting the rules of the game to destroy what realistically should kill you.

[Ronk]

Currently, having no potions (i.e. no cures) but allowing a mage to cast poison unbalances the tourneys for anyone who doesn't use magery.

Just throwing that out there.

[Flash Hardstar]

if you allow pisoning during the event than you have to allow pots, as the poisoner is allwoed to use pots is all
i think this would all be easier to just have the magic/potions toggle off and on more at event start ups as of now it is 99% no magics no pots and have no rules, field spells ect, poisoning so on

for survival
have class battles, warrior class/ mage class/bard class ect
i like going bard vs bard in survival see who can survive multiple AWs the longest ehehh, but you will see no matter what you do to survival a certain stratgey is going to eventually dominate and win everytime

Blackfoot, if a poisoner would use a poison potion, he would poison himself, ie drink it. Targeting the potion to poison is completely different than drinking heal/refresh/cure pots, so no I do not see why you'd allow pots. Quite possibly if they maybe had the alchemy skill I could see it but have to craft the pot mid battle, as we would have to poison mid-battle.

Also, toggling potions on to be CHUGGED would make 1v1 pvp unbalanced, and quite frankly the duels would near never end, ever watch a last man standing event? I think everyone clears my opinion on this subject.

[Arcanus]

If poisoning is allowed, cure potions should be allowed. It (DP) is a gigantic advantage, and is very difficult to cure with the cure spell (like 5-8 attempts), especially when you are getting dexed in the face. This would create a large imbalance.

I disagree with customizing the rules to individual players. If we start customizing rules, why don't we allow tamers to bring dragons and thieves to steal and hide? They spent several hundred skill points on their individual skills...why can't they use them in a tourney? See where I'm going with this?

If you think dexers are at an inherent disadvantage, take a look at players like Blaine Kross. He was kicking some serious mage ass in the PvP tournament two days ago, because he was smart with casting cure and greater heal at the right times. You simply can't expect to do very well on a no-magery character in a controlled, no special item setting. Chasing a guy around a 10x10 box and hitting your bandage self key every 15 seconds isn't enough. No magery characters have always relied on magic items and potions for a competitive advantage.

[Ronk]

If you think dexers are at an inherent disadvantage, take a look at players like Blaine Kross. He was kicking some serious mage ass in the PvP tournament two days ago, because he was smart with casting cure and greater heal at the right times. You simply can't expect to do very well on a no-magery character in a controlled, no special item setting. Chasing a guy around a 10x10 box and hitting your bandage self key every 15 seconds isn't enough. No magery characters have always relied on magic items and potions for a competitive advantage.

If you were referring to me, as I mentioned, I am talking no magery dexers. I do agree, as it stands, its nearly impossible to win without magery.