Remove Trap Broken in Two Ways

[Poppalocke]

I know this is not a pvp thing, nor a pvm thing. Its how I like to play UO.

First there are trapped dungeon chests that can not be removed by GM remove trap. I am not using telekinesis, I never come out of hiding. Its how I play.

Second, I think its messed up that anyone can open a trapped chest by just walking one tile away from it and not being harmed when opening the chest. Thats broken and needs to be fixed.

Of course I found this all out after gming remove trap. I think its cheap and not era accurate..its a bug and it needs to be fix..

KK thanks
Troll/Flame on

Poppa Locke

[Pirul]

I personally have no clue if this issue is accurate or not, but if you find patch notes or other evidence that it is indeed not era accurate, I'm sure the staff will fix it as soon as possible for them.

[Poppalocke]

I personally have no clue if this issue is accurate or not, but if you find patch notes or other evidence that it is indeed not era accurate, I'm sure the staff will fix it as soon as possible for them.

kk here goes

Publish - February 24, 1999

Remove Trap

This new skill allows you to remove traps found on containers, as well as disarm other sorts of traps, such as ones found in dungeons.
This skill is used from the skills window. It will bring up a targeting cursor. Then target the trap to be disarmed. Of course, you need to be able to see the trap to disarm it.
The skill title associated with this skill is "rogue."
You cannot learn or use this skill until you have at least 50 skill in both Lockpicking and Detecting Hidden. Because of this, you cannot select it as a starting skill.
If you fail at using the skill, the trap will go off.
Different traps have different levels of difficulty.
Wearing gloves will make it harder to succeed. The heavier the gloves, the worse it is.
If you qualify for training in the skill, thieves and thief guildmasters can train you in it. You can use any of these keywords:
disarm
disarming
remove
removing
End Patch Notes


If you notice, there is nothing in here stating that this skill can be bypassed by just stepping one tile away from the chest thats trapped. Nor does it state there are trapped chests in the dungeons that cannot be removed, even at Gm.

I think if something is broken, it needs to be fixed. Remove trap on this server does not work as intended in these patch notes.

[Pirul]

Well, unfortunately patch notes not saying it does not necessarily make it true.

You can fail lockpicking a level 5 treasure chest at GM lockpicking, and it doesn't make sense, but if it's accurate, then that's it. The same way you can fail to meditate at GM meditation, or fail to make an exceptional halbred at GM smithing.

As far as the stepping away 1 tile thing, again, it doesn't make any sense, but it not being mentioned, does not necessarily make it true. If the demo, or RunUO default has it that way, then that's the best available information on the issue unless someone has some proof with enough weight to change it.

[Poppalocke]

Well, unfortunately patch notes not saying it does not necessarily make it true.

You can fail lockpicking a level 5 treasure chest at GM lockpicking, and it doesn't make sense, but if it's accurate, then that's it. The same way you can fail to meditate at GM meditation, or fail to make an exceptional halbred at GM smithing.

As far as the stepping away 1 tile thing, again, it doesn't make any sense, but it not being mentioned, does not necessarily make it true. If the demo, or RunUO default has it that way, then that's the best available information on the issue unless someone has some proof with enough weight to change it.

Look I completely agree, as a gm blacksmith I should fail maybe 1 out of 15 tries..but there is a success..but if Im gm remove trap..and i sit for 10 minutes at one chest unable to remove the trap??? Thats not right. Yah, let me fail but never succeed? That would be like a gm smith not being able to create a GM katana at all..find the patch notes that say thats correct or era accurate?? You wouldn't be able to.

What if the walking one tile away from trapped chest and opening is just something thats broken here on this server and never was a problem any where else??? How can I prove its era accurate if its just a bug here?

Broken=Broke..this is not gonna affect monster spawn/pking noobs. If its shot down, I can deal with that, but in the same breath...sounds a little lazy if it is.

[Kaivan]

A quick test on the demo reveals that traps should go off even if you use them while standing at a distance of 2 tiles. As for the failure rates, we have very little information regarding the failure and success rates of these skills at GM or any other skill level. Thus anything we do is going to be a very broad approximation.

More era information will help us to create a more accurate model of the success rate of the skill.

[Faust]

Opening the chests up at a two tile distance may not be era accurate but using the telekenis spell at a distance to prevent damage is era accurate. Will just be swapping from a free preventable method to a method that takes a couple reagents and a character with magery to disable the trap without the remove trap skill being required.

[Poppalocke]

A quick test on the demo reveals that traps should go off even if you use them while standing at a distance of 2 tiles. As for the failure rates, we have very little information regarding the failure and success rates of these skills at GM or any other skill level. Thus anything we do is going to be a very broad approximation.

More era information will help us to create a more accurate model of the success rate of the skill.

So with this being said, the demo is what it is..broken. I fear that the Admins have no knowledge of changing/programming the core of the demo..which is fine. I would say there is 1 out of 15 chests that will have the GM remove trapper fail the complete tenure of the chest (Chests appear and reappear randomly).

Remove trap is a lackluster skill, I mean if the demo had magery broken, just for laughs, you fail at flamestrike 100% at GM magery. Then none of us would be on this server/forum cause the demo/game would be considered broken.

I just hate that people are wasting their skill points and time to get remove trap to gm when in the long run its pointless. How would you feel if you gmed taming and logged in one day and everyone had a dragon without 0.01 of taming, and when you asked "why god why" and everyone turned to you and said "well its the demo, and find the patch notes that say you must have taming to have a dragon"

There is no such beast.

[Poppalocke]

Opening the chests up at a two tile distance may not be era accurate but using the telekenis spell at a distance to prevent damage is era accurate. Will just be swapping from a free preventable method to a method that takes a couple reagents and a character with magery to disable the trap without the remove trap skill being required.

I think the people who don't want this fixed are making money off it. I wouldn't want my free ticket into chests taken away either.

[Pirul]

Out of curiousity...is this happening to you in any particular chest, or just random lvl 4 dungeon chests, or any level dungeon chest?
EDIT: and most importantly, if you take one step back, does it pop without hurting you?

I think the people who don't want this fixed are making money off it. I wouldn't want my free ticket into chests taken away either.

Well GMs (like Kaivan) don't play here, so they only have the best interest of the shard in mind (making it more mechanically accurate). If you are reffering to Faust and me, well, Faust doesn't even play, and I GMed lockpicking a while ago...and trust me, I don't go stealthing through a dungeon picking chests, I just hate seeing changes made because someone said: "this is broken, fix!" without any support or research whatsoever.

[Derrick]

I'd love to fix it if it's broken. Thanks for posting.

[Poppalocke]

I'd love to fix it if it's broken. Thanks for posting.

Thank you derrick. I sure hope you are referring to the one tile away trap chest exploit.

And the people I was referring to about against getting it fixed are people I talked to in MIRC.

Thanks again

[Faust]

How did the two tile method even get implemented here in the first place? The exploit does not work for treasure chests but it works just fine for dungeon chests. Why the difference between the two?

[Kaivan]

A quick test on the demo reveals that traps should go off even if you use them while standing at a distance of 2 tiles. As for the failure rates, we have very little information regarding the failure and success rates of these skills at GM or any other skill level. Thus anything we do is going to be a very broad approximation.

More era information will help us to create a more accurate model of the success rate of the skill.

So with this being said, the demo is what it is..broken. I fear that the Admins have no knowledge of changing/programming the core of the demo..which is fine. I would say there is 1 out of 15 chests that will have the GM remove trapper fail the complete tenure of the chest (Chests appear and reappear randomly).

Remove trap is a lackluster skill, I mean if the demo had magery broken, just for laughs, you fail at flamestrike 100% at GM magery. Then none of us would be on this server/forum cause the demo/game would be considered broken.

I just hate that people are wasting their skill points and time to get remove trap to gm when in the long run its pointless. How would you feel if you gmed taming and logged in one day and everyone had a dragon without 0.01 of taming, and when you asked "why god why" and everyone turned to you and said "well its the demo, and find the patch notes that say you must have taming to have a dragon"

There is no such beast.

I think that you misunderstand what I say with respect to Remove Trap. The reason we have very little information for it is because the skill was introduced after the demo (specifically the 2/24/99 patch). Thus, any information we become aware of must come from patch notes, HoC chats, stratics, and other resources, and those resources have proven to be very quiet on the issue thus far.

Additionally, its worth noting that the demo is clearly a snapshot of the game from some time during May of 1998. This is evidenced by the huge amount of information available in the decompiled demo that doesn't serve any purpose in the demo at all. Combining this with the reliability of the scripts and resulting functions in the demo with patches before and after the demo date, and it is clear that the demo is indeed a very reliable source.

[Light Shade]

Kaivan is indeed a very reliable source.