EV and taking counts

[Budner]

If someone casts EV, and I run into and die a minute or so later from being poisoned, does the caster take a count? Thanks.

[Menkaure]

Yup. You can give a count by being killed by another's ev

[Budner]

Thanks. Interestingly I have one char that I ran into an EV a couple of times, who when resurrected wasn't given the option to give a murder count. However another character under the same circumstances (as far as I can tell) WAS given the option to give a murder count. Not sure what the difference is. Neither is a red or a member of the thieves' guild.

[Elk Eater]

Thanks. Interestingly I have one char that I ran into an EV a couple of times, who when resurrected wasn't given the option to give a murder count. However another character under the same circumstances (as far as I can tell) WAS given the option to give a murder count. Not sure what the difference is. Neither is a red or a member of the thieves' guild.

You didn't attack the ev to aggro it did you?

[Menkaure]

I do think there's also a flaw because I've see That happen. I am not 100% sure but could it be if you die to the ev because it poisoned you and you didn't cure it in time that you don't get the count? For example I run into an ev an it doesn't attack me but I touch it and poison myself, I let the poison drain me and would I be able to give a count?

[Bixby Legbone]

I do think there's also a flaw because I've see That happen. I am not 100% sure but could it be if you die to the ev because it poisoned you and you didn't cure it in time that you don't get the count? For example I run into an ev an it doesn't attack me but I touch it and poison myself, I let the poison drain me and would I be able to give a count?

I'm pretty sure there's a timer activated. Once you take inital aggro damage, until you eventually die. If you take too long to die you don't get the option to give a count (I think it might operate similar to the thief turning from grey to blue after two minutes).

Occasionally when I would macro in Verity Isle Zoo, a person would come into town and kill afk macroers by just casting poison. I watched him since I wasn't afk, and I allowed my character to die in order to give this blue murderer a count. It wouldn't allow me, and the only answer is the timer had run out (between his initial attack, and the time of my death.)

[MatronDeWinter]

Each poison tick should re-start the aggro timer, thus, restart the Criminal Flag.


If someone damages you and you recall away though, you may not be able to count them. There is some sort of distance check, but I am not sure whether it checks specifically for the use of the recall spell or stepping in a gate, or if it has to do with distance across the map. Maybe staff can clear this up.

[Robbbb]

Thanks. Interestingly I have one char that I ran into an EV a couple of times, who when resurrected wasn't given the option to give a murder count. However another character under the same circumstances (as far as I can tell) WAS given the option to give a murder count. Not sure what the difference is. Neither is a red or a member of the thieves' guild.

There is a bug because I have had this happen to me before. The EV killed me right there, not the poison and I wasn't able to give a count. I didn't attack the EV and the person that casted it was blue to me.

[archaicsubrosa77]

I didn't attack the EV and the person that casted it was blue to me.

That is weird. Did it target you and ran into something else and you hit it first?

[Used Kotex]

Meh. It's where the EV is originally cast. <Targeted>

On top of, or possibly the square next to another player will qualify the caster for a count. After that, the EV's aggro will grey the caster, but not qualify them for a count.

[Elk Eater]

Meh. It's where the EV is originally cast. <Targeted>

On top of, or possibly the square next to another player will qualify the caster for a count. After that, the EV's aggro will grey the caster, but not qualify them for a count.

As much as I wish this were the case I'm 90 percent sure this isn't true. I'll try to test it later.

[Budner]

Thanks. Interestingly I have one char that I ran into an EV a couple of times, who when resurrected wasn't given the option to give a murder count. However another character under the same circumstances (as far as I can tell) WAS given the option to give a murder count. Not sure what the difference is. Neither is a red or a member of the thieves' guild.

You didn't attack the ev to aggro it did you?

I just ran into it, I wasn't in war mode, didn't actively attack it.

[Budner]

Meh. It's where the EV is originally cast. <Targeted>

On top of, or possibly the square next to another player will qualify the caster for a count. After that, the EV's aggro will grey the caster, but not qualify them for a count.

This makes sense. The char who was able to give a count had EV cast directly on him, whereas the char that couldn't give a count ran into the EV, now that I think about it. Excellent response.

[Vega/Delo]

If it does dmg no matter where it was casted, u get count. Used to be the server lines on Osi would clear it, say u attack me in covetous and I recall to Brit, no count. The timer is another issue.

[Kaivan]

I just responded to a question regarding field spells, and the same patch note has a valid response for this thread. A March 19th, mini-patch changed the behavior of energy vortex and blade spirits in the following way:

Energy vortexes and blade spirits will function a lot like the field spells with regards to the reputation consequences. They still attack victims normally, and the caster is completly responsible for their actions. This includes being cast as a murderer should the blade spirit/ vortex attack and contribute to the death of the victim. However, merely running into a blade spirit or energy vortex will no longer be grounds for reporting the caster for murder. The caster will become criminal should someone take indirect damage from such a spell, but much like fire field, they will not be reportable for murder.

This basically means that like a field spell, if you run into the blade spirit or energy vortex and are incidentally poisoned by them, the caster will be flagged a criminal, but won't be considered a murderer as a result.

As for the other scenarios, such as a player attacking an energy vortex, an action such as this one should absolve the caster of any criminal liability, provided that this is your first interaction with the vortex or the player. This is because the energy vortex has it's own aggressor list, and despite the fact that the vortex is an "evil" entity, when you attack the vortex, any response that it has is necessarily a defensive response. Think of it in the same way as a red player being attacked by an innocent player, and then 10 seconds later, the red player actually attacks the innocent player. The red player is not flagged as a criminal for this behavior, and the innocent player cannot count the red player should they die. This same concept applies to attacking an energy vortex.

I've gone into very long winded explanations of how aggressor flags and criminal actions are interrelated (and by extension counts), and this is a complicated example of the application of these flags. You can search the forums for my explanations on these flags, and then consider two additional factors relevant to blade spirits and EVs: The caster is responsible for the actions of the BS/EV, and when the BS or EV is created, the aggressor lists from their controllers are copied over to the EV/BS. This, combined with the patch note above, should help to determine which scenarios a player can and can't get a count.

Each poison tick should re-start the aggro timer, thus, restart the Criminal Flag.

This is not the case. Damage from poison ticks does not restart an aggressor flag, nor does it reset a criminal flag. This is due to the way that the poison spell applies its damage, which does not take into account the source of the poison effect, and as a result, has no way to reset an aggressor flag.

If someone damages you and you recall away though, you may not be able to count them. There is some sort of distance check, but I am not sure whether it checks specifically for the use of the recall spell or stepping in a gate, or if it has to do with distance across the map. Maybe staff can clear this up.

As per the February 24, 1999 patch notes:

You will no longer be able to report people for murder after recalling away.