Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy

[Kraarug]

Razor shares many features available in era with UOA. Razor does have smarter targeting and more robust macros however are there some features of 1999 UOA (which was approved by OSI) that Razor is missing.

Chief features missing are:

Recycle Agent: Pick a bag and everything in it would be recycled. This was great!
Use Once Colored Object: The Use Once agent made identified objects (pouches) pink so you could tell what was in que for Use Once.

The only heart ache I have with Razor is the "Steal by Target Type" ability which breaks stealing.

In short, calling for Razor to be nerfed or banned will not replicate UO T2A any better than we have now. It would just force upon us a no-macro play style and drive players away.

(BTW, Hotkey macros are ERA ACCURATE. So are arm, disarm, and target last hot keys. Please learn about what was available before asking for things to be removed based on an era accurate argument)

[Longfellow]

(BTW, Hotkey macros are ERA ACCURATE. So are arm, disarm, and target last hot keys. Please learn about what was available before asking for things to be removed based on an era accurate argument)


Yes, but not to the extent that Razor can execute them. You can have all the hotkeys macros you desire from the Options tab in UO, but anyone who says that the 2 are one in the same... wow.

[Duke Jones]

I agree. All I want is for us to use what's already in-game.

The stuff you can do with razor is getting to the point where you don't have to even play anymore. That's crazy.

[Kraarug]

I agree. All I want is for us to use what's already in-game.

The stuff you can do with razor is getting to the point where you don't have to even play anymore. That's crazy.

Duke,

I commend you for your choice of playstyles and, because of my admiration, I try to purchase from you as much and as often as I can.

Saying that, however, I do not think forcing a no-macro playstyle on the player base is era accurate or in the interest of shard growth.

Simply put, some aspects of UO are just too tedious to play without macros.

There may be some medium ground and, personally I would LOVE a emulated UOA program over Razor any day, but until this is created or a way is provided to make Razor emulate UOA, I think we are basically stuck with Razor as is.

BTW, I'm coming to buy some fish steaks and bandages tonight and I liked your YouTube commercial. Pretty orginal, a commerical for a player vendor.

[Zorce]

Here is the honest truth of what will happen if Razor is disabled,

Hear me out because I have seen this happen. What is taken away from razor will only be replaced by other scripting programs. There are some that can script easyUO to do anything and when I say anything I mean anything. These players that have this advantage will take advantage of the players on the shard (who have had their razor disabled and dont know jack about scripts)

While they are PvPing, auto looting, and owning us as basic UO client players, they will have the advantage every time.

Razor evens the odds a bit with its hot keys and features. You can take razor out but it isnt going to get the result that some of you think it will. There are other programs out there and the staff cant catch them all. I am not only thinking of my self here. I am thinking about the shard I have joined and put alot of time into already. I can play the game as is but I know from staff experience from a previous shard, not everyone will play on an even field, even if you force it on them.

That is my 2 cents on this subject. Take it for what it's worth.

[Duke Jones]

I appreciate your business. And believe me, I know if we ban razor, my niche market will be no more.

But to be honest, I would give up everything on my account if that meant making UO as it once, was. To make the game experience as close to 1999 as possible.

And I do admit, there's one point in your post that has a grain of "stop and think" truth to it.

Simply put, some aspects of UO are just too tedious to play without macros.

I agree. I think a game should be fun to play. That's basically the core of a "game;" to be fun and entertaining. But the flip side of that coin is the following:

Do what you want to modify a single player game from the developers' intent. The only person you affect is yourself. But when it comes to multiplayer games, you are dealing with the game play and enjoyment of everyone else that plays. You must have trust in the developers intent to have the community's best interest in mind. You may request things change, but it's ultimately up to the developers' official word, and by forcing any change away from the developers intent, weather it be by cheat, exploit, system abuse, unapproved 3rd-party programs, etc. you are selfishly pulling what you deem "fun" to yourself and away from the rest of the Developer's best interest for the community.

There may be some medium ground and, personally I would LOVE a emulated UOA program over Razor any day, but until this is created or a way is provided to make Razor emulate UOA, I think we are basically stuck with Razor as is.

Perhaps some medium ground shall be met. but until then, I will continue to fight until negotiations are considered/made.

[Hemperor]

Here is the honest truth of what will happen if Razor is disabled,

Hear me out because I have seen this happen. What is taken away from razor will only be replaced by other scripting programs. There are some that can script easyUO to do anything and when I say anything I mean anything. These players that have this advantage will take advantage of the players on the shard (who have had their razor disabled and dont know jack about scripts)

While they are PvPing, auto looting, and owning us as basic UO client players, they will have the advantage every time.

Razor evens the odds a bit with its hot keys and features. You can take razor out but it isnt going to get the result that some of you think it will. There are other programs out there and the staff cant catch them all. I am not only thinking of my self here. I am thinking about the shard I have joined and put alot of time into already. I can play the game as is but I know from staff experience from a previous shard, not everyone will play on an even field, even if you force it on them.

That is my 2 cents on this subject. Take it for what it's worth.

I think everyone has missed the blatant facts here. Only things that were not possible in the era will be disabled. These things being disabled will create a more accurate gameplay, I thought everything on this shard was supposed to be a question of accuracy?

[Zorce]

My point is that auto function will happen if razor options are limited or not. It cant be fully policed by staff. I am all for making it like it was. but I am sorry to say, when it comes to stopping 3rd party software, Its not possible.

[Duke Jones]

Enforcement really doesn't make an issue any more or less legal.

[Lil Meiyang]

A very casual, not-fond-of-macroing player's view on this:

AFK macroing as I recall was illegal during the UO Second Age era, as were third party apps. They jailed people, banned accounts, etc. This shard should do the same.

No matter how much back in forth goes on here, the bottom line is that razor is NOT era accurate. I remember players getting banned for using UOE? during the era. OSI finally made a patch that disabled it.

Find volunteers to police the shard. Three strikes, you're banned. Just like the era.

Someone on another thread mentioned a 10 minute murder report gump, which I think is an elegant alternative soluton. Hell, why not 2 minutes? If you're PLAYING THE GAME you'll absolutely know if you've been murdered within that time.

I don't buy this "to each their own" argument. This a game. Games have RULES. It's ludicrous to suggest this problem doesn't affect the ENTIRE PLAYER BASE. If "A" AFK macros up skills and runs elaborate non-era-accurate scripts in razor and "B" does not:

1. A will have a huge PVP advantage over B.
2. A will place a house/castle in a prime location before B.
3. A will outgather /outfarm A if they competing in the same area.
3. A will turn B's gaming world into a realm of cold sterile automatons.

We are the borg. You will be assimilated.

Sucky. This game is *all* about RAZOR.

That's why I cast my vote here for ERA ACCURACY.

[Halogen]

I don't like the direction this thread is going...I lived through the McCarthyism of 1997-99, and I don't want to have to relive the experience

[Homie]

disable / ban razor? ban afk macroing?

you guys do know what you are talking about?

afk macroing and 3rd party tools are a policy thing and have nothing to do with era accuracy of game mechanics nor are the suggested changes like able to bring back a special type of feeling like you all had in 1999.

Just imagine how heavy such changes would impact on the playerbase of this shard. Its not like that we do disable features of any kind now and everyone will be happy tomorrow particularly once you consider that this would be a 180° turn in the shard rules.

Even the removal of little things in razor would only bring complaints and that with justification due to the fact that this shard is running for a good amount of time already and still working very well with its macro- and razor-friendly policy.

regards

[fatmagic]

Just thinking, if you really did totally ban Razor and go crazy Era accurate - then you would probably lose half the population. (I know I would leave) Or someone would start up another UOT2A shard that allows macroing, and the other crowd would go there. It would just divide the community too much to ban Razor. Just thinking out loud.

[Sum_Mors]

Part of the problem is that too many people are arguing extremes. Ban razor. Let people macro how they will.

Perhaps Derrick can furnish some data that would help in debating?

For instance, there is a stance that making the shard razor-exclusive will hurt our player base by a) forcing non-razor users to use it, and b) tying razors errors to our shard. I can see where the latter makes sense, but could we get some data on how many players connect to UOSA without razor?

Another stance is on what would be disabled and what wouldn't. I believe everyone agrees that the shard is here for era accuracy. Investigate what was able to be done during the era, and investigate players feelings on the shards aesthetics. I for one would FULLY approve of the disabling of light filters. Night time and nightsight was part of the game. Currently it is not in any way, shape or form. Clearly not era accurate.

Another part of the discussion is policing things that are wrong with the shard, such as AFK macroing and its results on the economy. I'm not staff of course and we really can't change what they do (its Derricks shard ) but I'd like to formally submit that Counselors should be added on the staff in order to police the rules the shard has. I know the current staff does a great job at being online, but how much time is actively spent patrolling the player base?

The only part of the argument I can't understand is that people are arguing that their points supersede era accuracy. It was my understanding that era accuracy trumped all here. Not to the point of convenience, but to truthfulness. Both sides are doing this.

The pro-razor side is saying that disabling features on razor would "make the game not as convenient". Unfortunately for them, I believe the game is called UO, not UO-lite. Don't suggest to some that they should leave if they don't like it, when clearly you'd cry like a baby if the coin went the other way.

The people against razor like to make flippant claims such as there being no legal 3rd party programs to match up with razor, or that macros outside of UO's built in ones shouldn't be allowed. Even though we know UOassist was legal at the end of the era (correct me if I'm wrong), even IF they made 3rd party macroing illegal, it WAS era accurate to use these in a manner where they would not be caught. Punishments were still in place, but 3rd party programs were not outright banned from being usable (with some exceptions).

[Hemperor]

ONCE AGAIN:

It seems to be every page that I am repeating myself, does no one read my posts? Banning razor is not an option, Disabling macroing is NOT being proposed.

What is being proposed is disabling features that were not possible in the era, aka INACCURATE gameplay. Why go to all the work of making such an accurate shard, and then to have one set of things you can easily make accurate with the addition of a simple script...just to say, "screw it, it's 2009, I like being able to target closet innocent humanoid WHILE running", a simple feature that was certainly not possible within the era.

Threatening saying "oh everyone will leave if this happens" is evident in just about every other topic that goes on in this shard, no one's leaving, please drop that dramatic excuse.