Your talking about the macros section too. Diabling loop and long writen macros. Well i did that with EZ Macros but im not gonna go look and use a program that takes over my computer to do it. There is no room for discussion here Hemp. Free-use Razor is the best thing this sever has going for it. Hands down.
And you are wrong hemp, This one would cause people to leave, becuase people would start to cheat. Nothing makes people like me leave faster then rampant cheaters.
Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
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Posts in this forum are expected to be constructive, realistic and civil. Inflamatory or off topic posts will be removed.
Posts in this forum are expected to be constructive, realistic and civil. Inflamatory or off topic posts will be removed.
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
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Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
Razor is ten times more powerful than Ez Macros.
Scripts can be written with Razor following precise conditions such as hitpoints, stamina, system messages, etc... This can not be done with Ez Macros and can waste resources tremendously or even get a character killed while macroing. This isn't possible with Razor unless someone else comes along influencing the situation instead.
Scripts can be written with Razor following precise conditions such as hitpoints, stamina, system messages, etc... This can not be done with Ez Macros and can waste resources tremendously or even get a character killed while macroing. This isn't possible with Razor unless someone else comes along influencing the situation instead.
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
You haven't read the topic. I will not repeat myself.tekai wrote:Your talking about the macros section too. Diabling loop and long writen macros. Well i did that with EZ Macros but im not gonna go look and use a program that takes over my computer to do it. There is no room for discussion here Hemp. Free-use Razor is the best thing this sever has going for it. Hands down.
And you are wrong hemp, This one would cause people to leave, becuase people would start to cheat. Nothing makes people like me leave faster then rampant cheaters.
Once again, "people will leave" has never been an appropriate point in any discussion on this shard, it shouldn't start now.
You could not boat macro mining, for instance, within the era unless using EUO (if it existed). You wouldn't be able to either with my proposed Razor changes, I think it would be even EASIER to spot the cheaters with these changes, you would, however, be able to macro Magery like you could in era.
[22:26] <ian> why am i making 3750 empty kegs
[22:27] <ian> 1125000 for 3750 empty kegs
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[10:44] <ian> a good cat is a dead cat
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
Couldn't be put any better. Fwerp I know you're frustruated with the PvP changes of late, but you know as well as I do back on OSI there were MANY programs that enabled you to do a lot of what people are calling for to be removed. There are tons of programs out there now that many of you are not even away of. Auto healthbar pulling everyone on screen, alerting you when you're targeted, alerting you when your hally timer is up, the list goes on. Limiting razor won't change the PvP feel on the server. Sadly most of the people posting on here never played on OSI let alone during T2A era. I haven't read through much of this thread because I don't have the time and I don't respect too many of your opinions due to lack of credibility and experience.Kraarug wrote:Razor shares many features available in era with UOA. Razor does have smarter targeting and more robust macros however are there some features of 1999 UOA (which was approved by OSI) that Razor is missing.
Chief features missing are:
Recycle Agent: Pick a bag and everything in it would be recycled. This was great!
Use Once Colored Object: The Use Once agent made identified objects (pouches) pink so you could tell what was in que for Use Once.
The only heart ache I have with Razor is the "Steal by Target Type" ability which breaks stealing.
In short, calling for Razor to be nerfed or banned will not replicate UO T2A any better than we have now. It would just force upon us a no-macro play style and drive players away.
(BTW, Hotkey macros are ERA ACCURATE. So are arm, disarm, and target last hot keys. Please learn about what was available before asking for things to be removed based on an era accurate argument)
Hemp sorry you're wrong. As far as "looping" option being removed from razor there was a program called EZ macro that recorded your every move and you could loop it. I had many elaborate mining/LJing macros that I ran. Long story short, limiting razor isn't accurate nor will it do anything productive.
On a side note if you guys are going to start implementing era accurate bugs which I think is fucking retarded also. You could mana drain someone without taking a count. I racked up 40-50 on a throw away "Syntax Ultra" when I had 3 of my buddies running with me mana draining the target.
Faust wrote:Razor is ten times more powerful than Ez Macros.
Scripts can be written with Razor following precise conditions such as hitpoints, stamina, system messages, etc... This can not be done with Ez Macros and can waste resources tremendously or even get a character killed while macroing. This isn't possible with Razor unless someone else comes along influencing the situation instead.
It doesn't matter if it's more powerful than EZ macro, it still serves the same purpose. A lot of the reason that EZ macro wasn't/isn't known for being reliable is because of connection issues. OSI shards were pretty unstable....and so were our connections since most were on 56K.
Syntax of the Wolfpack (TW) - PVP Since 97'
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
All the opposition to this clearly haven't read the information presented.
Disabling looping in Razor... You can still use UO loop to loop ANY hotkey within the client, this means you can still run your "7x mage macro" before leaving your house, do not fear pvpers. This does, however, disable any "For" loops (loop 20 times, then perform next action, etc.) and does prevent a macro calling another macro.
Some examples:
Cast Spell
Target Self
Restock
Meditate
STILL POSSIBLE
For Loop: 30 times
Double click Pickaxe
Target relative location (cave)
Forward
stop
End For
Backwards
Pause 100 seconds (all the way back to the start of the mountain)
NOT POSSIBLE: This is a boat mining macro
Craft Spell 1
Place in Spellbook
Call Macro: Craft Spell 2 (etc etc etc)
NOT POSSIBLE: Stupid macros that make tedious things such as making a full spellbook an afk job.
I see only positive, accurate changes with this.
Disabling looping in Razor... You can still use UO loop to loop ANY hotkey within the client, this means you can still run your "7x mage macro" before leaving your house, do not fear pvpers. This does, however, disable any "For" loops (loop 20 times, then perform next action, etc.) and does prevent a macro calling another macro.
Some examples:
Cast Spell
Target Self
Restock
Meditate
STILL POSSIBLE
For Loop: 30 times
Double click Pickaxe
Target relative location (cave)
Forward
stop
End For
Backwards
Pause 100 seconds (all the way back to the start of the mountain)
NOT POSSIBLE: This is a boat mining macro
Craft Spell 1
Place in Spellbook
Call Macro: Craft Spell 2 (etc etc etc)
NOT POSSIBLE: Stupid macros that make tedious things such as making a full spellbook an afk job.
I see only positive, accurate changes with this.
[22:26] <ian> why am i making 3750 empty kegs
[22:27] <ian> 1125000 for 3750 empty kegs
----------------------------------------
[10:44] <ian> a good cat is a dead cat
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
We are not talking about small changes like the removal of checks. We are talking about major changes in the ruleset and the policy regarding 3rd party tools.Hemperor wrote:Once again, "people will leave" has never been an appropriate point in any discussion on this shard, it shouldn't start now.
Obviously you dont get the dimensions of such a change and where it can lead to.
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
As I've stated before, the only things that would be limited would be things such as boat mining... Which you can still do attended of course, however AFK it is already illegal.Homie wrote:We are not talking about small changes like the removal of checks. We are talking about major changes in the ruleset and the policy regarding 3rd party tools.Hemperor wrote:Once again, "people will leave" has never been an appropriate point in any discussion on this shard, it shouldn't start now.
Obviously you dont get the dimensions of such a change and where it can lead to.
People would quit because they cannot perform illegal actions?
[22:26] <ian> why am i making 3750 empty kegs
[22:27] <ian> 1125000 for 3750 empty kegs
----------------------------------------
[10:44] <ian> a good cat is a dead cat
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
This should be a clear argument:
Weigh the pros and cons of having a 3rd party program everyone can use vs. Nerfing that program and having players start to utilize other 3rd party programs and widening the gaps between those that don't macro programs at all.
In short, this is an attempt to cut off UOSA's nose to spite it's face.
The result would be increasing the barrier to play UOSA more while only bringing in more exoctic 3rd party programs with far more reaching effects.
If one doesn't like another using Razor to fish, they certainly will not like another using EUO to auto loot.
The resources required on the admin side to police these actions would just take away from Era Accurate development and then what will we have? A shard no one wants to come to and filled with zealots that either contantly get killed and auto looted out an attempt to create a T2A era that never existed.
It's pretty simple how this should go down. Use Razor until a real option is out there that can better emulate UOA while blocking other 3rd party programs.
Until that is the case, one should just learn to adjust to others using Razor.
Weigh the pros and cons of having a 3rd party program everyone can use vs. Nerfing that program and having players start to utilize other 3rd party programs and widening the gaps between those that don't macro programs at all.
In short, this is an attempt to cut off UOSA's nose to spite it's face.
The result would be increasing the barrier to play UOSA more while only bringing in more exoctic 3rd party programs with far more reaching effects.
If one doesn't like another using Razor to fish, they certainly will not like another using EUO to auto loot.
The resources required on the admin side to police these actions would just take away from Era Accurate development and then what will we have? A shard no one wants to come to and filled with zealots that either contantly get killed and auto looted out an attempt to create a T2A era that never existed.
It's pretty simple how this should go down. Use Razor until a real option is out there that can better emulate UOA while blocking other 3rd party programs.
Until that is the case, one should just learn to adjust to others using Razor.
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
Hemperor wrote: As I've stated before, the only things that would be limited would be things such as boat mining... Which you can still do attended of course, however AFK it is already illegal.
People would quit because they cannot perform illegal actions?
Staff already enforces the macroing rules so this would be a weak argument compared to the efforts be made to stop a hand full of people breaking the rules.
You really want to make the majority of the players feel sour just to prevent a few (who will get caught anyways) from violating the rules? good deal
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
The funny thing about this whole argument is that if what is requested is granted, then those that want a Razor change will only find an tougher battle against EUO and other programs.
There are times to be righteous and there are times to do the right thing.
In this case, a righteous stance will bring upon larger problems than annoyances of others play styles.
There are times to be righteous and there are times to do the right thing.
In this case, a righteous stance will bring upon larger problems than annoyances of others play styles.
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Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
I agree, we should be considering the "Big Picture"
I think we should remain serious to consider limiting razor. I will continue this for as long as I remain playing
*BUT*
We should hold off until we know we have enough staff to properly police this policy.
Having policy to make the shard more accurate to T2A gameplay is great!
...But without proper enforcement, players will continue to selfishly abuse the system for all its worth.
I think we should remain serious to consider limiting razor. I will continue this for as long as I remain playing
*BUT*
We should hold off until we know we have enough staff to properly police this policy.
Having policy to make the shard more accurate to T2A gameplay is great!
...But without proper enforcement, players will continue to selfishly abuse the system for all its worth.
"When you remove human error, accuracy, and speed, you remove the human element."
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
That is a valid point, Kraarug, however the people that this would affect are mostly the people already cheating.
No longer will you think, "Does this guy have a crazy ass Razor macro?". No, it will simply be he is cheating... I think it would be FAR easier to weed out the cheaters, a simple rpv of someone macroing resources after the change is all that would be needed for appropriate actions.
At the time being, an rpv won't help much, simply because you don't know.
My biggest beef ever with this shard is not being able to take it to the highest level of accuracy (or what is currently possible) simply because it inconveniences people. Kraarug's point is certainly valid and worth discussing, but everything else being said is basically moot.
If you could cheat back in the era using EZ Macro, good for you, we're talking about Razor. EZ Macro is still available to be downloaded, google it. Of course you won't hear mentioned how you had to dedicate your computer to run it etc., no, you just get the best of both worlds!!
Inaccurate.
No longer will you think, "Does this guy have a crazy ass Razor macro?". No, it will simply be he is cheating... I think it would be FAR easier to weed out the cheaters, a simple rpv of someone macroing resources after the change is all that would be needed for appropriate actions.
At the time being, an rpv won't help much, simply because you don't know.
My biggest beef ever with this shard is not being able to take it to the highest level of accuracy (or what is currently possible) simply because it inconveniences people. Kraarug's point is certainly valid and worth discussing, but everything else being said is basically moot.
If you could cheat back in the era using EZ Macro, good for you, we're talking about Razor. EZ Macro is still available to be downloaded, google it. Of course you won't hear mentioned how you had to dedicate your computer to run it etc., no, you just get the best of both worlds!!
Inaccurate.
[22:26] <ian> why am i making 3750 empty kegs
[22:27] <ian> 1125000 for 3750 empty kegs
----------------------------------------
[10:44] <ian> a good cat is a dead cat
Re: Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy
I'm all for macroing as the actual staff of this shard has defined it. Unless it goes to a vote, our opinions are important, but we are players, not policy makers. No one's idea of "how everyone should play" really matters except those ideas of the people who actually make policy.
This is starting to sound like an pissing match about whose ideals about A VIDEO GAME are right or wrong. I enjoyed this version of UO very much, and that's why I play - not to satisfy an intellectual perspective of what is the "right" or "wrong" way to play a game, as long as how I play is within the rules dictated by the rule makers. Besides, Razor, to me, is a convenience, and is going to save me from the carpal tunnel that would result after hours and hours of "LastTarget" hotkeying.
Can't we just get back to playing the game? If the non-macroers want to set up a community where only non-macroers play, that's well within the possibilities on this shard. Brittania is a big place.
This is starting to sound like an pissing match about whose ideals about A VIDEO GAME are right or wrong. I enjoyed this version of UO very much, and that's why I play - not to satisfy an intellectual perspective of what is the "right" or "wrong" way to play a game, as long as how I play is within the rules dictated by the rule makers. Besides, Razor, to me, is a convenience, and is going to save me from the carpal tunnel that would result after hours and hours of "LastTarget" hotkeying.
Can't we just get back to playing the game? If the non-macroers want to set up a community where only non-macroers play, that's well within the possibilities on this shard. Brittania is a big place.
Last edited by Ulor on Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
