Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy

[Arkosh Kovasz]

Yea I don't know how to steal with "target by type" I've messed around with it, but it seems to target stuff in your own backpack. If anyone knows what I'm doing wrong then please explain. I still target everything manually. Guess I'm oldschool.

[Chaos]

i didn't think thiefs carried to much with them ..

[Arkosh Kovasz]

Hmm..maybe town thieves, but in the field I carry regs and all sorts of things that help me survive an encounter. Most of the items I'd want to target first from a mark, are all things that I'm carrying.

[Tron]

EUO thieves target by type, not razor thieves.

And off topic, I carry around full gear on my thief too, but I aint no town thief. :d

[Orsi]

Once again, the In Lor example you used, that I called out as a "cop out" plays here.

It's not razor that's not letting you interact, it's you.

I won't ask someone for Night Sight if I don't need it. I won't go the the Britain Blacksmith to chat and buy off another player because I've already made my own GM smith. I don't talk to anyone at the stables taming cows because... well they aren't really there.

• running complex loops which craft/gather while not in-game

- AFK resource gathering is illegal. Don't blame the program for this, blame the players.
I don't blame anyone for using the tools they are given, I simply ask why are they being given them?

• never learning what An Ex Por means someone is going to paralyze you because of auto-translating

- This would be nice, for new players of UO. That's not what are community consists of. This is almost irrelevant. And we're not trying to create T2A for people that have never played, are we?
You underestimate how many new players play here. Every week a thread pops up saying they are new to Ultima. Whether they stay or not is dependent on how interesting the game is. I would find people chanting Kal Ort Por or Corp Por at the bank more interesting and mysterious than Recall or Energy Bolt. This is not irrelevant, it is what UO is. I wouldn't go to Italy if everyone spoke English, drove SUVs and then go buy a big mac.

• never getting lost in a dungeon because a lack of In Lor regs, nightsight potions or even a torch because of always lights on

- Again, an issue for new players, who honestly doesn't know their way around dungeons?
Have you ever fought someone in a dungeon and had Night Sight wear off? You'd understand the difference if you had, and it would remind you to always remember it after you finally get ressed.

• scavenger agents which remove the scramble for loot

- Scavenger doesn't auto loot.
Set scavenger to pick up jewels and gold. Now go kill Elementals in Shame. And sorry, I meant to combine that with Auto Open Corpses

• target by type removes even looking for items for thieves

- Explain?
Target Type: Mandrake Root/Black Pearl/Rune, more of an EasyUO feature, but thieves can also bypass the old trick of having ten robes over your box by using a macro.

I guess I just read you opening statement to your arguments and it's like you're laying the blame for the game feeling 10 years old on an assist program. The lack of razor, isn't going to make the game feel the same as it did back then. Player interaction is the players responsibility. Do something about it. The things you want can still be had if you put effort in. Banning razor is not some lazy mans fix for your problems. You know why you can play those 10 year old single player games and have it feel the same? It's single player, you only have to convince yourself it's the same experience. You don't have to worry about the 400 other guys who don't feel the same way about "Final Fantasy" or play "Final Fantasy" for any of the same reasons you do.

To quote you.
There is nothing fun about playing in a world that is not growing or changing. You can vary aspects of the game without changing accuracy.

That would mean Final Fantasy is boring, wouldn't it? Does that mean when we finally get t2a accuracy it'll be boring because nothing is changing? No of course not, but I'm trying to say your argument is misplaced.

No it isn't, you said: "The reason UO doesn't feel like a fantasy wonderland anymore is because the genre is tired. UO, during the t2a era, was new. And it was the only mmo besides EQ to choose from." Final Fantasy VI is older than Ultima Online; the JRPG genre has been beaten to death more than MMORPGS ever will. That will never change my enjoyment of the game, because the way I play it has never changed, my comparison was in context. Now your argument is misplaced because there is a fundamental difference between Final Fantasy and Ultima Online; Ultima Online is a persistent world, Final Fantasy isn't.

I said it before, I'm not blaming Razor completely, it is just one major factor that discourages and prevents interaction, while the other one is the encouragement and influence of staff policy and enforcement.

Look at the bigger picture and the chain effects of certain features. Those who will quit over disabled features to Razor were on the verge of quiting anyways. Those who will switch to other programs will not be able to cry injustice when caught. New players will never know the difference if they just started. For the majority of the population who don't even frequent the forums, they'll click on negotiate features, log in, and finally witness something physical in the world changing.

[Arkosh Kovasz]

EUO thieves target by type, not razor thieves.

And off topic, I carry around full gear on my thief too, but I aint no town thief. :d

Good to hear it Tron. Didn't take you for the thieving sort, more of the cold-blooded killer breed

[Zorce]

If I had to guess, the players wanting to outlaw razor have already used it to macro their skills where they want them.
Why wouldnt they want it gone? lol

[Hemperor]

If I had to guess, the players wanting to outlaw razor have already used it to macro their skills where they want them.
Why wouldnt they want it gone? lol

If I had to guess, you haven't actually read this topic.

[Zorce]

I have read it and basically see the same users posting over and over to get in the last word.
Truth is that this is one of those endless threads that will go on and on and unfortunately.....on.
There are alot of features I have never learned in razor but I dont like weather and nights.
How does me liking it daytime effect you as a UO player? It doesn't.
Loops have always been in UO. If I have to fish by clicking each time, I would rather stick ice pics in my eyes.
Never used smart targeting so I cant comment on it.
agents and other options such as bandage self is nice.
I am against limiting or banning razor. If you like night time then by all means enable it on your own client.

No matter how hard its tried. You cant get the whole 100% of the old feel back. Everything has been explored, everything is known about skills and mechanics in the game. We are not a bunch of noobs running around asking each other "what next"?
We will never get that feel back for such an old game, as much as I would like.

Limiting a globally used third party client isn't going to fix anything, it will move player to use unapproved clients with limitless features or split the shard. I think it was a noble attempt to get that old school feeling but I don't think its best for the shard as a whole.

[Duke Jones]

Nerd Rage: ON.

I have read it and basically see the same users posting over and over to get in the last word.
Truth is that this is one of those endless threads that will go on and on and unfortunately.....on.
There are alot of features I have never learned in razor but I dont like weather and nights.
How does me liking it daytime effect you as a UO player? It doesn't.

"In Lor," Mo-fo. Useless now because of that.

Loops have always been in UO. If I have to fish by clicking each time, I would rather stick ice pics in my eyes.

Last object, last target. It's already in-game. No razor is necessary. And if you're too lazy to do THAT, fishing isn't for you. There are plenty of professions. I'm sorry "Gold-farming template #3" is inconveniencing you by making you sit at the computer and "play," if you can even call it that, anymore.

Never used smart targeting so I cant comment on it.
agents and other options such as bandage self is nice.

I'm glad you think not having to interact with the game as much is nice. How about Derrick just makes you a shopping gump you can access at any time, to buy what you want. Would that be "nice" too?

I am against limiting or banning razor. If you like night time then by all means enable it on your own client.

Yes, because obviously a community-based MMO customized around YOU is fine. Is it dark? We could use night sight as intended and built into the game, but nah, lets NOT spend regs/gold on this in-game feature. It's not what *I* want.

No matter how hard its tried. You cant get the whole 100% of the old feel back. Everything has been explored, everything is known about skills and mechanics in the game. We are not a bunch of noobs running around asking each other "what next"?

Yeah, it's not like anyone NEW plays this game. Besides, I already GMed a character before... I should be ENTITLED to not have to gain skills anymore... ever.

We will never get that feel back for such an old game, as much as I would like.

Yup. Agreed. Lets just give up, abuse whatever we can, be jerks to everyone else, and run this game into the ground, horray!

Limiting a global used third party client isn't going to fix anything, it will move player to use unapproved clients with limitless features or split the shard. I think it was a noble attempt to get that old school feeling but I don't think its best for the shard as a whole.

Yup! Curbing abuse, cheating, and enforcing policy is not best for me.... i mean the Shard!!! It's not best for the SHARD!!! Honest!

[Tron]

Nerd Rage: ON.

I have read it and basically see the same users posting over and over to get in the last word.
Truth is that this is one of those endless threads that will go on and on and unfortunately.....on.
There are alot of features I have never learned in razor but I dont like weather and nights.
How does me liking it daytime effect you as a UO player? It doesn't.

"In Lor," Mo-fo. Useless now because of that.

Loops have always been in UO. If I have to fish by clicking each time, I would rather stick ice pics in my eyes.

Last object, last target. It's already in-game. No razor is necessary. And if you're too lazy to do THAT, fishing isn't for you. There are plenty of professions. I'm sorry "Gold-farming template #3" is inconveniencing you by making you sit at the computer and "play," if you can even call it that, anymore.

Never used smart targeting so I cant comment on it.
agents and other options such as bandage self is nice.

I'm glad you think not having to interact with the game as much is nice. How about Derrick just makes you a shopping gump you can access at any time, to buy what you want. Would that be "nice" too?

I am against limiting or banning razor. If you like night time then by all means enable it on your own client.

Yes, because obviously a community-based MMO customized around YOU is fine. Is it dark? We could use night sight as intended and built into the game, but nah, lets NOT spend regs/gold on this in-game feature. It's not what *I* want.

No matter how hard its tried. You cant get the whole 100% of the old feel back. Everything has been explored, everything is known about skills and mechanics in the game. We are not a bunch of noobs running around asking each other "what next"?

Yeah, it's not like anyone NEW plays this game. Besides, I already GMed a character before... I should be ENTITLED to not have to gain skills anymore... ever.

We will never get that feel back for such an old game, as much as I would like.

Yup. Agreed. Lets just give up, abuse whatever we can, be jerks to everyone else, and run this game into the ground, horray!

Limiting a global used third party client isn't going to fix anything, it will move player to use unapproved clients with limitless features or split the shard. I think it was a noble attempt to get that old school feeling but I don't think its best for the shard as a whole.

Yup! Curbing abuse, cheating, and enforcing policy is not best for me.... i mean the Shard!!! It's not best for the SHARD!!! Honest!

These kind of posts don't help your crusade.

[Zorce]

Nerd Whine: ON.

Who is Curbing abuse, cheating, and enforcing policy? I am not. Its not illegal to use razor. I probably have less than anyone playing this shard. I am not abusing anything sir. There are several useless skills and items in the game, and night sight seems to be the one people are whining about?? Haha

Players should spend more time praising the job that was done on this shard instead of continuously whining about how they think razor is the devil.

I havent been here long and already see who the 2 biggest whiners on the shard are. Get a grip people. Its a game.

[Orsi]

It's not illegal to use Razor, and certain features undermine several aspects of the game. We should assess whether or not these features actually improve the game experience or detract from it. If we believe that these features improve the game, then what we are really assuming is that the designers were wrong and the game was worse than it could of been. I don't think any of us could argue for this, because we seem to all agree that that era was the best time in gaming. So let's ask ourselves a few things:

Why would the designers implement nighttime and really dark dungeons, and also the means to overcome them?
Why is there an entire language devoted to casting spells?
As the only approved third party application, what did UOAssist provide for players, and what features were removed in order to pass the approval process?
What could be the reason for not including very specific targeting key bindings in the client?
Would limiting Razor's capabilities and requiring all players to use it ostracize a significant number of players? Furthermore, would users resort to other third party applications knowing full well that anything other than Razor is illegal?

[Duke Jones]

Alot of angry banter.

These kind of posts don't help your crusade.

You're right, Tron. I apologize (especially to Zorce). My comments were more scathing than helpful or constructive. I should really know better than that.

It just seems that every day, there's less and less "gameplay" and more elaborate macros, unattended players, and an elitst community shifting the economy into inflation.

There are already posts online by new players asking how to macro their skills up, or which template is the best, etc. It's pretty much understood now that anyone joining the game is just going to goldfarm or PvP, and although there's nothing inherently wrong there, the original vision of UO, is fading away. I'm afraid UOSA will simply be a shard without gameplay standards or policies, covered with the false guise of a "T2A wrapper."

"Simply the way it was..."
Hmph! Not quite yet, and slipping fast. We can only dream and not give up.

[vkamicht]

"Simply the way it was..."
Hmph! Not quite yet, and slipping fast. We can only dream and not give up.

Every T2A shard out there uses this phrase and they all seem to think the same thing - change some gameplay mechanics and you're done. I appreciate what UOSA has done in terms of things like staff interaction, but that's really only a fraction of what needs to be. We stand out from all the others, but only by a centimeter. Shouldn't it be more?