Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy

[Rabbi Dan]

I have been unable to find anything supporting this claim, links?

The holocaust? Heh, prove it. Regardless, here you go: http://www.uodivinity.com/forum/showthr ... cked+razor

Note: No one was actually banned for this.

[Orsi]

There will be a select few who always cheat or exploit, that's called human nature. People still steal and abuse others so why even have laws at all then? The point is to prevent the greater majority, i.e. the ones who don't want to risk getting caught or don't care for the disabled features, from doing them.

Plus, its as simple as watching someone perform an action that is disabled in Razor to tell if they are using another program. Saves time for staff to investigate an issue.

[Neoptolemos]

Well if we want to stop the progress of game technology, we may as well make sure the server stops saving for about 3 hours a day to backup like it did on OSI instead of the 2 minutes it takes now. Lets ban ventrilo and teamspeak too, its not really era accurate for people to be using these programs to communicate like that while playing.

I don't understand what most of you are thinking.

[Duke Jones]

Well if we want to stop the progress of game technology, we may as well make sure the server stops saving for about 3 hours a day to backup like it did on OSI instead of the 2 minutes it takes now. Lets ban ventrilo and teamspeak too, its not really era accurate for people to be using these programs to communicate like that while playing.

I don't understand what most of you are thinking.

Let's not loose focus of the topic. We're not talking about progress of technology. We're talking about (and should focus on) 3rd -party features that deviate from policy, intent, and T2A gameplay.

Does Razor features need to be limited for the greater good of GAMEPLAY?

[Sentinel]

From what I've read, they can't be. Not everyone connects using Razor and the implementation, while possible, would force players to connect to UO using Razor unless the other programs available to connect are restricted too. Does anyone know the other programs a person can use? Maybe something can be done about all of them. I don't think that just because certain players will possibly Cheat/Exploit (No more so than the ones who do now with Speedhacking) that it means there shouldn't be something done about it. Let them break the rules and enjoy their IP/Proxy bans when the Staff finds out.

Voice programs were definitely used back in the day.

[Orsi]

What it comes down to is, how many already use Razor to connect to the shard? If we can find out that most people already do connect with Razor, then disabling features and making it required to use Razor is feasible without dropping players. To tell you the truth, there isn't an easier way to connect to the shard and it is also advised on the main site, so I would assume 95% of our population uses it.

So let's go over this.

• Should we disable features in Razor for overall gameplay?
  • Removes elements that never existed during T2A
    • -filters: always light, sounds, weather
    • -macros: elaborate chained macros with hp/stam/mana checks
    • -specialized targets: target nearest red/blue/criminal
    • -greater accuracy
  • Requires Razor to connect to shard
    • -is there a significant number who don't connect with Razor?

[Derrick]

Does anyone know the other programs a person can use?

A program is not required, you can hack the encryption out of the client.exe with UORice, edit the login.cfg and connect naturally.
Other known programs for connectiong to UOSA are ConnectUO, UOGateway, and most recently ListUOGo
None of the above incude any utilities once connected, they are simply an encryption patcher.

[Duke Jones]

Does anyone know the other programs a person can use?

A program is not required, you can hack the encryption out of the client.exe with UORice, edit the login.cfg and connect naturally.
Other known programs for connecting to UOSA are ConnectUO, UOGateway, and most recently ListUOGo
None of the above include any utilities once connected, they are simply an encryption patcher.

Wait... what?

Well... why can't we just use one of those and do away all this overpowered Razor nonsense?

I might be a little shortsighted here, but wouldn't this help?:

-Requiring a plain connection agent (and not allowing other 3rd-party programs that are used for multiclienting, elaborate/looping macros)
-Auto-Disconnect for unresponsive players
-Responding to reported players violating new policy (which will be ALOT more obvious).

[Derrick]

Disallowing Razor is not going to be realistically considered unless there is another third party Utility alternative. UOA was a staple of game-play during the T2A era. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it would be nice if we could support UOA but currently that isn't possible.

[Neoptolemos]

Let's not loose focus of the topic. We're not talking about progress of technology. We're talking about (and should focus on) 3rd -party features that deviate from policy, intent, and T2A gameplay.

Yes we are. It was entirely possible for 3rd party apps to do the things Razor does in 1998. The technology existed. There were many non UO related macro creating programs available for stringing together hotkeys that could be used to make complex chains back in the day. Just because most people were computer illiterate doesn't change this.

What "policy" do you speak of? From the FAQ.
*We allow unattended macroing with Razor (Download Here)

As long as you don't intent to:
*You may not gather resources or items unattended. This includes mining, lumberjacking, lockpicking in dungeons, cotton pickin', and fishing in deep water.

Macroing is faithful to T2A gameplay. External programs are irrelevant, as long as they aren't violating that one rule above.

I think the real question is why are you so vehemently opposed to issues regarding ease of use? You're reminding me of one of those old liberals who tells me I shouldn't be allowed to own a rifle for hunting because it could be used to kill people in a crime.

Does Razor features need to be limited for the greater good of GAMEPLAY?

No. Unattended resource gathering is its own issue. If Derrick needs to ask for a volunteer or two to go around a few times a day checking on people macroing then so be it.

[Duke Jones]

The whole point of this topic is to propose new policy.

It's pretty naive and short-sighted to be so absolutist as to say "This is policy NOW. Thus, it will NEVER, ever change."

We're proposing change for the greater good.

Sure, there were lots of 3rd-party apps out there. But how many of them were compliant with UO OSI's policy? A t2a server with era-accurate mechanics and looks, is POINTLESS without t2a era-policy as well. Weather or not it was enforced is irrelevant due to the production shard's desire to keep as many subscribers paying as possible. They had rules regarding what you could do with "helper" programs.

We should also strive to have some standards because we're seriously lacking.

[Neoptolemos]

A t2a server with era-accurate mechanics and looks, is POINTLESS without t2a era-policy as well.

Weather or not it was enforced is irrelevant

I find it incredibly relevant.

We should also strive to have some standards because we're seriously lacking.

Do you know what the GREATEST thing about oldschool UO was on OSI? Players policed themselves. If you didn't like someone, you killed them. If they wronged you, you wronged them back.

If you don't like people resource gathering unattended there would be no better way to stop it then for you and friends to create junk characters and hunt down popular spots and kill them with explode pots or something.

[Duke Jones]

A t2a server with era-accurate mechanics and looks, is POINTLESS without t2a era-policy as well.

Weather or not it was enforced is irrelevant

I find it incredibly relevant.

We should also strive to have some standards because we're seriously lacking.

Do you know what the GREATEST thing about oldschool UO was on OSI? Players policed themselves. If you didn't like someone, you killed them. If they wronged you, you wronged them back.

If you don't like people resource gathering unattended there would be no better way to stop it then for you and friends to create junk characters and hunt down popular spots and kill them with explode pots or something.

I consider it irrelevant because this shard doesn't have to worry about the burden of making a profit. It was the greed of monthly subscriptions that turned a blind eye to violating policy.

I agree what you're saying about players policing themselves, but there are no players! EVERYONE just sits AFK and macros and resource gathers. So its pretty much getting to where the player base is corrupted, not just on the surface level, but to the CORE, itself.

----90% of the playerbase-----
1) make your first character, and macro a profitable skill.
2) Make money from the skills you AFK macro'd.
3) Create your PvP character, and afk macro up THOSE skills.
4) Write up elaboarte macros for PVP,
5) Field PvP or grief new players "because that's the only worthwhile thing in UO to do."
------------------------------

How are you suppose to player-police this when the majority of the server has this mindset? Show me how you do that.

I think... this might not be the server for me anymore.

[Neoptolemos]

How are you suppose to player-police this when the majority of the server has this mindset? Show me how you do that.

I'm going to be 100% honest here. When I started up here a month ago, I hadn't played OSI in years. During my times on OSI, I must've gmed to 120ed over 120 skills on multiple characters across multiple shards across multiple eras across multiple accounts. If it wasn't for the fact I could unattend some skills here, I wouldn't have had the heart to start up from scratch hunting mongbats again like the game was new. There's certainly no way I could manually cast thousands of flamestrikes or provoke thousands of creatures entirely manually at this point. It would be maddening.

There are people on this server I know from eras long gone, but I never asked for handouts and did everything myself. First character I made was a bard. Spent a few days macroing some skills and then scraped together enough gold avoiding PKs to buy a small house and some regs to start training Magery. Rotated spots to avoid ghosts, always ready to recall etc. Reminded me of old times, and it was fun. It wasn't that easy. Eventually I earned enough cash to finish my mage to 6x with upper 90s resist. That's not the fault of the system, thats the fault of lack of spawn competition due to a low population and years of experience.

I'm going to practice a bit since I'm rusty on PvP, but I plan to look for a guild soon. If I had to do all this by hand, I wouldn't be playing, and I think thats the way it is for alot of oldschoolers. They don't want to invest hundreds of hours doing skills manually on a freeshard that (no offense to Derrick, he's done a great job) could go down permanently at any time. RL issues happen.

[tekai]

Best post yet ^

There are people who can handle starting out, carring little and banking often.. and there are people who just cant handle it.

I became established in the days of Fast Ace WW's , Tron, Malice and all the Pks pking constantly. I survived, and I trived. I learned how to recall fast and eventually how to fight.

Dont change the system.. use it to your own advantage.