Deadly Poison?

[Joueur Moyen]

Yes, they were and the evidence to back this up is beyond substantial.

Sorry if I'm implying that it wasn't possible to cure deadly with lesser, which isn't my intent. I'm certainly not trying to argue that you shouldn't go with the demo code, and I agree it's your best evidence unless something more substantial came along.

What I meant was that lesser potions failed, and often enough to make them far less useful than gcures, which succeeded. (Effective was probably a poor choice of words. Lesser was not nearly as effective as greater, because of the failure rate of the former and the certainty of the latter.)

What I was really arguing against was that UO:R was the patch what made lesser potions "lesser."

[Faust]

Don't remember the exact formula results for each cure potion level here at work. However, even Lethal poison was curable relatively easy by a lesser cure potion or regular cure potion from my recollection of the formula results from the original code. The code uses the same formula that the cure spell uses but in place of magery are preset values for each potion. The scaling was definitely not balanced very well at all, but it's accurate for the time period we are replicating and that is all that matters.

[Eaglestaff]

I think arch cure had a better chance to heal it too.

[Faust]

Lesser = 1
Regular = 2
Greater = 3
Deadly = 4
Lethal = 5

Sorry, the formula was screwed up big time on my part while converting it from randomly named variable values to a named value from the code file...

Code: Select all

int pVal = (PoisonStrength * 1750);
int sVal = (Magery * 75);

if ( ((10000 + ( sVal - pVal )) / 100 ) > random(1,100) )
   // Success;
else
   // Fail;

The pVal should have been subtracted from the sVal instead of vice versa.

Here are some generated values below while using this particular formula...

Skill - Success Chance
Lesser
050.0 = 120.0%
100.0 = 157.0%

Regular
050.0 = 102.5%
100.0 = 140.0%

Greater
050.0 = 85.00%
100.0 = 122.5%

Deadly
050.0 = 67.50%
100.0 = 105.0%

Lethal
050.0 = 50.00%
100.0 = 87.50%

Edit:
Here is another great piece of information that clearly states the change with this spell in July '04...

One of the biggest changes publish 25 (the PvP publish) brought to UO was the change in the cure spell - it is now a lot harder to cure higher level poisons with the cure spell. Since the second level cure spell was now essentially nerfed, the development team decided to increase the effectiveness of the level 4 spell "Arch Cure". However, since Arch Cure casts a lot slower than Cure, some changes had to be made; so instead of casting like a regular 4th circle spell, Arch Cure now casts like a 3rd circle spell instead, meaning its only 0.25 seconds slower than the regular cure, but a lot more effective in terms of curing poisons. Of course, this means you'll have to spend more mana to cure poison (11 versus 6), but overall its a nice change to make higher level poisons more worthwhile. I'll add a table to illustrate the effectiveness of the Cure spells.

Cure Spell - 100 Magery
Lesser - 100%
Regular - 100%
Greater - 76%
Deadly - 43%
Lethal - 10%

Arch Cure Spell - 100 Magery
Lesser - 100%
Regular - 100%
Greater - 100%
Deadly - 100%
Lethal - 87%

Reference: http://uo.stratics.com/content/professi ... ells.shtml

What is interesting about this article is that the values of the Arch Cure spell is that they are EXACTLY the same values that both cure spells produce with the demo formula.

[Joueur Moyen]

How do the lesser/regular/greater cure potions compare to different levels of magery?

[Faust]

This was a previous post that I found during a search of my posts for the arch cure spell.

There was a post from Derrick awhile back listing the potion data/formulas too. However, if you are wanting that data you will more than likely have to get him to repost it or find that old response of his.

Also, you could always download Batlin's demo project and look at the original code yourself too.

[ClowN]

*deep breath* here we go again.

deadly poison is definatly broke. no i cant explain why. i tried figuring it out for like a month. but i played a poisoner during t2a and it was a very worth while skill to have for a pvp dex build. here it is useless.

and no i am not thinking of UOR era poison. I played UOR only for a couple months. the char i am talking about was one of the first non-newb chars i ever made, i played him for about a year before UOR came out, and i was very active in order/chaos. so that puts my memory right around early 99ish till the entry of UOR.

yes i understand player memory cant be trusted in regards to accuracy, but i didnt just imagine playing a template for an entire year before quitting around feb of 2000. i even have old guildmates from chesapeake that i still play with here that share the same memory. i doubt we are all wrong.

[Grom]

i can't vouch for the effectiveness of cure potions, and I started in UO:R, but unless serious changes to the damage the poison did were made, DP should do more damage than it does now. Based off our memory of the damage DP would do on my fencer back when me and my friends played, we all started off making dexing fencers, and quickly changed as we saw the poison damage was so sub-par. It wasn't a latency thing, it straight up did more damage a tic, but again, if this changed in UO:R, I can understand, I just haven't seen anyone with evidence about that yet.

[Snowman]

*deep breath* here we go again.

deadly poison is definatly broke. no i cant explain why. i tried figuring it out for like a month. but i played a poisoner during t2a and it was a very worth while skill to have for a pvp dex build. here it is useless.

and no i am not thinking of UOR era poison. I played UOR only for a couple months. the char i am talking about was one of the first non-newb chars i ever made, i played him for about a year before UOR came out, and i was very active in order/chaos. so that puts my memory right around early 99ish till the entry of UOR.

yes i understand player memory cant be trusted in regards to accuracy, but i didnt just imagine playing a template for an entire year before quitting around feb of 2000. i even have old guildmates from chesapeake that i still play with here that share the same memory. i doubt we are all wrong.

Agreed, poison is definitely not what it was on OSI. I remember deadly poison being devastating.

[Godsend]

From what I remember of T2A, lesser cures could cure some more difficult poisons but had to be drank in quantity. I remember this because in my earlier years I would collect lesser cures from monsters because I did not have an alchemist yet and chug several just to cure myself from one poison. Regular cures were effective in the same way against all poisons accept lethal, which required greater cure. I also remember that because no matter how many potions I had of lower levels, I knew I was dead meat as soon as lethaly poisoned. With a later patch on OSI, I was forced to begin carrying greater cures to take care of all poisons. And if I remember correctly, lethal did about 40 dmg per hit, deadly about 20, regular about 5, and lesser about 1-2. I don't know if this is how it is here because no one seems to poison much and whenever I am around monsters I usually have a mage who can just arch cure.
Also, I am not sure when or where this is from, but I vaguely remember getting a message when trying to heal with bandages that said "You manage to dress your wounds, but fail to cure the poison" resulting in a gain in hits but remaining poisoned.

[Lupos]

Honestly as much as I'd like deadly poison to be the badass curbstomper that I "rememberd it to be" I'm pretty sure that most of us are allowing our jaded UO nostalgia cloud our judgement here. This nostalgia originates from either being traumatised as a clueless noob and running around screaming wondering what the hell a green health bar meant OR being on the other side and taking advantage of such characters.

It was a difference in playstyle, ping, and third party applications.

Everyone has gm magery here
Everyone has bag full of pots combined with a potion macro
All dexers seem to have GM healing and anat.

Seriously back then having 90 magery was considered godlike and so many people aren't considering these and many other variables.

[William Thorn]

I couldn't agree more with what Lupos said.

[ClowN]

i have considered what lupos said in the past as well when trying to analyze poison effects here. i agree that lower skills/stats was definatly a large factor in the effectiveness of poison on OSI.

however i had a couple chars that i used for townfighting back then (my poisoner wasnt one of them, he was red). my other char was a macer. he was a 6xgm (healing, anat, mace, tactics, parry, hiding, 30 magery, 70 resist). obviously stats were 100 str/dex and 25 int. this character worked awesome in large guild fights within town, but as soon as id get poisoned, things would get very ugly, even with potions. the way i remember it, the first tick of a deadly poison charge would hit instantly, and sometimes do upwards of 30 damage. even with GM parrying on this character, a poison dexxer would rip me a new one even when his weapon wasnt doing hardly any damage due to my parrying skill, the poison damage even from just one tick would make up for it. it seems like here, i never see damage ticks that high from deadly poison, and it also seems like the damage is delayed when the target is initially poisoned.

again im not sure why poison isnt very effective here, but im positive it was on OSI during our time frame. I havnt tried this in a while, so maybe it has changed, but last time i drank a deadly poison potion here, on a char with 100str, the poison wore off before the character died. this would have NEVER happened on OSI.

not to mention lvl 5 poison (from poison eles, tinker traps, and a few other mobs) on osi....was almost guaranteed death. multiple cure attempt were needed to even stand a chance, and usually you would die before getting a successful cure. here i can cure it in 2 attempts if im NOT lucky enough to get it the first try.

[nightshark]

when terathans were faster here, terathan avengers were very lethal, because they could

hit (30ish damage), poison tick (25ish damage), flamestrike (40ish damage) very quickly. seriously, try being trapped in a small room with a terathan avenger and nothing to prov onto, and tell me those things aren't lethal. same goes with a poison elemental: i've done a thunt where a poison elemental took down a balron 1v1 (granted, the balron usually *just* wins).

so really, my opinion is not that poison is any less lethal, it's just that we're far more prepared for it now than we were in '99. we're 7xgm, DP doesn't make us panic, we're carrying more than enough pots, with a button that will instantly drink them, all while having the ability to zoom away at full speed on our horse.

idk about you guys but DP didn't scare me in the slightest during UO:R. i don't recall anyone ever saying "damn, those poisoners! they're so overpowered!".